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luVWagn
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2008
Posts: 1340
Location: Snoqualmie (WA)
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 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
You get what you pay for 
Do a little research on the subject.
I have posted pictures of the "real" 944 CVs vs the ones for $75.
If you dont believe me, read the Porsche forums, you will hear tons of bitching over low quality parts that are now seen as "universal" by large parts warehouses.
Again, if the joint isn't north of $200, you are not getting what you think you are getting. |
So the 944cv from pelican at $75 is *identical* to the $68 one from van-cafe? Yes or no.
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'91 Syncro 16 Reimo Hightop Conversion, eTDI |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| YUP |
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luVWagn
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Joined: February 21, 2008
Posts: 1340
Location: Snoqualmie (WA)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm. Well that would be about the first time our vendors are cheaper...
I thought articulation was different, but now I'll have to buy one of each to check 
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'91 Syncro 16 Reimo Hightop Conversion, eTDI |
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| luVWagn wrote: |
So the 944cv from pelican at $75 is *identical* to the $68 one from van-cafe? Yes or no. |
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here, depending on what we are talking about.
Ignoring price and vendors, the LOBRO 944 CV joint kit is not the same as the LOBRO Vanagon CV joint kit. They carry different part numbers and they are definitely not the same parts. The 944 CV joint has slightly smaller bearings (and cages and housing to match) that allow a bit more articulation. The Vanagon CV joint has larger bearings with less articulation. They are distinctly two different parts. I have both and you can clearly see the difference. So I guess I would say to make sure that you know what you are looking at so that you can compare apples to apples or oranges to oranges.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ok.
I will post pictures of the real deal 944s I have.
You will see, than when compared to $75 944 joints that they are much much stronger and the quality is that of 930s.
A $75 joint is a $75 joint.
The Porsche Guys post regularly pictures of warn parts after very few miles, just as Vanagon Volks do.
The quality has fallen off serverly.
I hope I am wrong and $75 joints work for lifted to the max vans. |
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photogdave
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Joined: April 05, 2004
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Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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j_dirge
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Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| luVWagn wrote: |
So the 944cv from pelican at $75 is *identical* to the $68 one from van-cafe? Yes or no. |
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here, depending on what we are talking about.
Ignoring price and vendors, the LOBRO 944 CV joint kit is not the same as the LOBRO Vanagon CV joint kit. They carry different part numbers and they are definitely not the same parts. The 944 CV joint has slightly smaller bearings (and cages and housing to match) that allow a bit more articulation. The Vanagon CV joint has larger bearings with less articulation. They are distinctly two different parts. I have both and you can clearly see the difference. So I guess I would say to make sure that you know what you are looking at so that you can compare apples to apples or oranges to oranges. |
I was somewhat suspicious when I ordered mine last year or year before.. So I compared side by side to the originals I had in a box from when they were removed some 10 yrs ago..
The 944 Lobro from PP was thicker bodied, noticeably heavier, and the balls looked smaller.. The exterior milled piece is of noticeably different color. A greyish color.. where the originals from the van have a shiny polished exterior surface
though I did not take the cage out and measure with a caliper.
Part numbers don't match, either... I hope that PP is not swapping out parts under different psrt numbers. As a vendor if that became common knowledge it would hurt their business in a big a way.
No one is suggesting that are they?
I didn't take pictures.. And now they are on the van with a nice coat of road grime to hide them away.
My 930s still sit in the box waiting for the big trans rebuild.
Lottery winnings anyone?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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j_dirge
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Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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At $200 a pop for 944Cvs.. Complete 930 kits are cost comparable..
Why not just go with 930s, then?.. .. other than the swap to 930s is a huge pain in the butt and can't be done in a hour and a half like the 944s can be done.
Jon Slider..
Where did you source your 944s?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| photogdave wrote: |
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| So I guess I would say to make sure that you know what you are looking at so that you can compare apples to apples or oranges to oranges. |
So which one should I buy?
 |
All I was really saying is that if Van Cafe is selling the Vanagon version of the Lobro CV joint kit, it is not the same Lobro CV joint kit that is meant for the 944. That would be an apples to oranges comparison.
And all I can say is that I have been running the pants off of my GKN/Lobro 944 joints with NEO grease and they are doing great. These are on my Syncro and I have not been kind to them either. I have beat on them pretty hard.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough.
I bought both the Vanagon and 944 Auto zone halfshafts...the longest any lasted was 500 miles.
The balls were crappie and the boots, dont get me started.
Glad to hear they are holding up Chris.
As you have said previously, you did not buy them from Pelican.
The reason 944s are better for most is that stock flanges work just fine. |
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
I bought both the Vanagon and 944 Auto zone halfshafts...the longest any lasted was 500 miles.
The balls were crappie and the boots, dont get me started.
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Yes, exactly! And the complete axle assemblies, LOBRO brand or otherwise, all use the Vanagon spec CV joint, not the 944-specific CV joint. They probably do this because the Vanagon joints are cheaper.
And to make matters worse, the LOBRO CV joints that come with the complete axles assembly are not even the same CV joint as the individual LOBRO CV joint that comes in the LOBRO Vanagon CV joint kit (got all that?). It's a completely different joint altogether. I had the CV joints of one of the LOBRO brand 944 complete axle assemblies last about 3000 miles before self destructing. And maybe this is why the Porsche crowd is griping so much.
The GKN/LOBRO 944 CV joint kits that come separately from the axles are completely different and like I said, work seem to work very well.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
The GKN/LOBRO 944 CV joint kits that come separately from the axles are completely different and like I said, work seem to work very well. |
Which comes full circle.. The link provided earlier to Pelican Parts is for the separate GKN/Lobro joint @ $75 each.. not thier 944 axle kits which come in over $200.
Dylan says "No.i Its the same joint that is sold as a Vanagon joint".
The part no. is right there on the site if anyone wants to investigate further.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome.
Sounds like the crap has been exposed and similar experiences abound.
On a related note, I have some EMPIs going strong and I have been beating them.
Oh how parts quality comes and goes. |
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photogdave
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Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3053
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| photogdave wrote: |
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| So I guess I would say to make sure that you know what you are looking at so that you can compare apples to apples or oranges to oranges. |
So which one should I buy?
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All I was really saying is that if Van Cafe is selling the Vanagon version of the Lobro CV joint kit, it is not the same Lobro CV joint kit that is meant for the 944. That would be an apples to oranges comparison.
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Just my lame attempt at humor. I know how much you hate that question!
I'm just fine with stock and maybe upgrading to silicone boots! 
_________________
89 Syncro GL Westfalia 2.1 WBX/WBXaustSS
My Westy Movies:
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| photogdave wrote: |
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| photogdave wrote: |
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| So I guess I would say to make sure that you know what you are looking at so that you can compare apples to apples or oranges to oranges. |
So which one should I buy?
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All I was really saying is that if Van Cafe is selling the Vanagon version of the Lobro CV joint kit, it is not the same Lobro CV joint kit that is meant for the 944. That would be an apples to oranges comparison.
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Just my lame attempt at humor. I know how much you hate that question!
I'm just fine with stock and maybe upgrading to silicone boots! |
Yeah, I got the humor (funny... like taking a stock-tired Syncro up to Gallagher Lake. Har, har!), but I figured there was actually some truth in the question, if not from you then from other people, so decided to comment on it.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Parts geek
GkN 944 CV kit
http://www.partsgeek.com/k6g517g-porsche-944-cv-joint-kit.html
Retail $200
"your cost" ~$75..
Part #: W0133-1611367
Is this a "real deal" GKN 944 CV kit? or not.
Notice the small races.. cut in the outer housing.
Compare side by side to Van Cafe's pic.. larger races cut in outer housing
They are all over the place at ~$75
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Order them up and let us know. |
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newfisher
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Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Insyncro, thanks for the response even though my wallet doesnt like the answer. I guess its a joint a month and then some boots. By the end of the summer I should probobly be ready for them and have pieced them together by then. The good used one zip tied underneath will be a back up for now. |
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| newfisher wrote: |
| Insyncro, thanks for the response even though my wallet doesnt like the answer. I guess its a joint a month and then some boots. By the end of the summer I should probobly be ready for them and have pieced them together by then. The good used one zip tied underneath will be a back up for now. |
Consult Christopher via pmail, he will point you to good quality at a more cost effective rate. |
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luVWagn
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2008
Posts: 1340
Location: Snoqualmie (WA)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
Ok.
I will post pictures of the real deal 944s I have.
You will see, than when compared to $75 944 joints that they are much much stronger and the quality is that of 930s.
A $75 joint is a $75 joint.
The Porsche Guys post regularly pictures of warn parts after very few miles, just as Vanagon Volks do.
The quality has fallen off serverly.
I hope I am wrong and $75 joints work for lifted to the max vans. |
This wasn't the question I asked, to which you definitively stated the 944 and vanagon gkn CVS are *identical*. Chris and others say otherwise.
So will you admit to being wrong?
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'91 Syncro 16 Reimo Hightop Conversion, eTDI |
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