Help with my buggy

[Sherlock77]

This is the first time I have posted, but I need some help/advice. About a year ago I bought a dune buggy, I got it really cheap and the only thing obviously wrong were the tires that were dry rotted and the rims that were rusty and ugly. The wiring was also a mess. It started and ran great, with the brake lights sometimes going out, I drove it on the weekends for about 6 months until one of the tires finally went flat and wouldn't hold air for long.
About 2 months ago I got new tires and rims and would have been back on the road except for the brake lights going out. I started looking into the wiring and found that whoever wired the buggy did a horrible job, the wire from the fuse box to the brake switch, which was about 2 feet long, was 4 wires spliced together. I went though and fixed several wires that were like that, also rewired the tail lights and the wire that went to the coil/choke because in several places the wire had no insulation. I also replace the fuse box with a new blade style one because the old one was cracked. So I got it all back together, put 7.5 amp fuses in the new fuse box and tried starting it. The starter fuse blew right away. not wanting to fry the starter, I rigged just the starter to the old fuse box with an 8 amp fuse, This brings up my first question, can I put a 10 amp fuse for the starter? Blade fuses don't come in 8 amp and it blows the 7.5 amp fuse. I have seen others using the new style fuses and I had an old beetle a few years back that had been fitted with one, I just don't remember what amp fuse I had in it. Sorry if that is a stupid question, I just don't know much about car electrical and don't want to burn out the starter.
So After rigging the 8 amp fuse the starter cranked over but the car didn't start, I tried a few times with no luck, on the next try the starter did not crank. sadly I had to stop and figured maybe the fuse had blown and decided to try the next day. unfortunately, a tropical storm and a leaking roof and other things interfered so it wasn't until this past friday that I got back to it. The starter still won't crank, no click or anything, I checked the wire going from the ignition switch and it looks good and has continuity and the fuse is good. could it be the ignition switch or the starter that is bad? anything else I may not have thought of? I got everything else working, brake lights, tail lights and headlights. I don't really want to pull the starter if I don't have to, or change it if that's not the problem, is there a way to check if it's bad? I don't really know much beyond the basics, with my old beetle, my dad would do the bulk of the advanced work and I would help him, but he passed a few years ago so I'm trying to remember what he taught me.
If it helps, the buggy is a mish mash of several years, it is registered as a '76, the engine is a '73, but it has link pin suspension which was before '68 I think. Sorry this post is so long, I just want to get my buggy back on the road soon, any help would be appreciated.

[kustoms]

The best advice I can offer is, invest in a new high quality wiring harness and spend a week or two gutting and rewiring. It is well worth the effort.

Trying to fix a crap harness is like bailing out the Titanic with a fire bucket. No matter how hard you work, its still going to sink.
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[jspbtown]

I totally agree with Tom.

The starter circuit is really simple. Large cable from battery + to large lug on starter. Power from battery to ignition switch. From "start" tab on ignition switch wire goes to small tab on starter solenoid.

Make sure you have power to your ignition switch. Make sure power is sent to the correct tab on the ignition switch when the key is held on the "start" position. Then make sure power is getting to the small tab on the solenoid when the switch is in the "start' position.

Make sure your starter has a good ground. I like to go from the battery neg to a starter mounting stud.

And don't forget....I agreed with Tom's advice first and foremost.

[Sherlock77]

Yeah, I thought about that, but I wanted to get it running that day and I had the wire to do the two worst wiring problems. This still doesn't answer if the starter is bad as I don't want to go through all that and still need a starter.
As for the wiring harness, you say a good one, what does that mean? I have seen them from about $80 to $280. Do you have any recommendations? I like the watsons Streetworks one but is it worth the $280 or is the Chirco one fine?

[BL3Manx]

Starters aren't normally fused. The positive battery cable goes directly to the starter motor. When you turn the ignition key to start you are just sending power to the starter solenoid which is a mechanical relay which closes the circuit on the starter. That's why you can crank the motor by just putting a screwdriver between the terminals on a starter.

The last year for link pin suspensions was 65.

Myself, I just get the cheap ($65) Bugpack/Empi type harness and toss the VW ceramic fuse block and directly replace it with a 6 fuse SAE block from my local auto store.

The only relay I have is the stock VW blinker. I don't have brake warning lights or a multi speed wiper . I also don't have a dash full of gauges either, just the late model speedo with the integral fuel gauge, hi beam, turn indicator, oil press and alternator idiot lights. If you don't have it, it can't break. The main advantage is that the wiring diagram that comes with it matches the terminal numbers on the VW switches if you're using them. I would get a good quality wire crimper and connectors though

I mount the fuse block to the left of where the steering column goes through the front of the body tub, low enough where I can lean over and see/reach it with both feet still on the ground.

http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1886

[kustoms]

[manxdavid]

I did exactly what BL3Manx did, used the cheapo harness with a 6 blade fuse box, the only wires I needed to add were for front park lights as these aren't included but are required by law here in the UK.

[Baja68]

I will do a search to find where I bought mine from.

But I got a fuse box with harness for about 100-150 dollars. The important thing to me was the one I bought had blade fuses, built in flasher , built in horn relay.

This made it so the only add on I needed was 2 relays for high beam and low beam.

Let me see if I can find the vendor I got mine from.
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[Baja68]

Still looking but this is the fuse box and harness I have

This is not my car but I have basicly the identical set up and fuse box been in there for years works great.

Still looking for the vendor.
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[Baja68]

Well I searched for a while and could not find the vender I bought mine from its the same as jspbtown ( I think ) maybe he or some one else can chime in and drop the venders name.

here are 2 links I ran accross in the search may be helpfull to you.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344781

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...mp;start=0
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[sparky0028]

http://rebelwire.com/rebel-wire-products.php?cat=Wire%20Kits

[jspbtown]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-circuit-universal-wiring...mp;vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Circuit-Wire-Harness-st...mp;vxp=mtr

No matter what harness you get you will need alot of ground wires and a system to hook them up.

To test your starter just jump the small tab to the large lug with a screwdriver (with the car in NEUTRAL) like Tom suggested.

And just a little advice. Working through wiring issues in a poorly wired car one issue at a time will get you one thing.....stranded at the very worst time possible.

[Sherlock77]

Thanks for the help everyone, looks like I'm going to be ordering a wiring kit hopefully next paycheck and trying my hand at rewiring everything.
Another question, everyone says that I'll need ground wire, do the wiring harnesses not include it or will I just need more then they supply?

[Baja68]

Since you are working with fiberglass car you can not ground to the body. So all your grounds have to go to a (ground bus) in the pic I put up on the left of the fuse box and the right of the relays is the ground bus I refer to.

I bought mine from academy in the boat supplies section.

I used one on the fire wall 1 on the hood for the guages and one in the rear box for the ecm and relays and such.
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[Dale M.]

Just go as upscale in wiring harness as you can afford.... Usually the bag-o-wires kits for $60-70 will end up costing you a additional $100 or so for more wire, fuses, relays, switches and what ever.....

Highly suggest a all in one kit like "Rebel Wire" or "Watsons" or "American Autowire".... May seem like over kill, but the advantages of having everything you need, and all wires labeled is a real plus... Have wired many buggies, street hot rods, trailers and spend too may hours repairing wiring jobs that were done by "professional" idiots to skimp on any part of wiring....

MY buggy.... Wired 10 years ago, everything worked first time it was tested and still not a problem with wiring today.... Bottom line is go with best quality materials and do best quality work for best reward...

Here is link to may sources for wiring materials and information.... Post is some what dated but many of links are still valid...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344781

Dale
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"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Dale M.]

[VolkswagenGerry]

[didget69]

Note that many of the 'universal wiring harness kits' (8-10-12 circuits) sold on Ebay are short on wire length - they often only have 8'-10' of wire, so you'll end up splicing some wires in...

I've asked this seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Circuit-Wire-Harness-st...mp;vxp=mtr
on two separate occasions about wire length - no response.


Regarding Rebel Wire Harnesses:

http://rebelwire.com/rebel-wire-products.php?cat=Wire%20Kits

I've spoken to the owner Bob @ Rebel before on this harness; he uses top-quality SXL wire (cross-linked Polyethylene jacket rated to +125C); this wire is of a better quality than the GPT wire used in many cheaper kits (FYI - GPT wire is PVC jacketed & rated to +80C) - the GPT wire is at the lower end of the cost/performance specifications... thus the lower price of many of the 'universal harness wiring kits'. The SXL wire also offers better abrasion resistance & chemical resistance.

Inquired on the wire lengths that Rebel offers on this 8-circuit kit: (measured wire length from fuse box to end of wires)

Left Front - 7'

Right Front - 9'

Left Rear - 15'

Right Rear - 17'

Bob/Rebel also offers a VW specific kit with 12 circuits, but for most buggies, this might be overkill. But one can never have TOO MUCH overkill, right?

bnc
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[uglyvw]

I used the same econo kit that bl3manx posted about 10 years ago. Mounted the fuse box in the center on the firewall and had enough wire length to run everything just fine. There was no excess that is for sure, but it did work. I was on a tight budget at the time and would love to have gone with a nicer kit, but it's still doing fine after 10 years.

[Sherlock77]

Ok I got the rebel wire harness to rewire the buggy, got the starter wired and was going to wire the coil when I ran across this:

What is this? The orange wire goes to the coil while the pink is the new wire that goes to the ignition, my friend that was helping connected it there but I don't know if that is where it goes, I think the pink wire goes directly to the coil but where does this connect to? I haven't seen this on the previous bugs I have owned.