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Motor Build for 1602cc 36 HP
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Motor Build for 1602cc 36 HP Reply with quote

This build is for Tom Newport’s dune buggy to compete in the September 2012 USFRA (Utah Salt Flat Racing Association) AKA Bonneville Salt Flats speed trails. In 2011, we took Tom Newport along as part of the Bruch/Anderson race crew and the salt bug bit him badly.

Newport is modifying the buggy with a new roll bar assembly, lowering chassis, fuel system, gearing, etc and adding safety items. I’m building the motor (BvilleTom) to what we would ultimately aspire to be a crisp, strong street motor, not an all out hand grenade type, which would be a whole different animal as well as a large budget deal. I’ll try my best to get pictures of most everything. Some methods to my approach may seem different. However, my approach is old school and usually the reason is because it works and doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. I have been doing this successfully for a living as well as fun since the late 50’s.

This 36 HP case is a 1958 that was a very good factory rebuilt unit (A001122x) with major internal Windage modifications, boat-tailed webs, 8 oil drain back holes in lifter web area, general smoothing of all surfaces to help get the oil away from the crank and back down to the deep sump. The crankshaft is a 356 Porsche 74 mm modified by Ollie’s , Lake Havasu City, Arizona as are the Porsche 356 push rods. The rods are balanced end for end and total weight and the fillet radius from the shank of the rods to big ends are ground out and blended smoothly together. This is where they usually fail because of the sharp edges. The camshaft is from Mr. Motorhead and is his #2 which I degreed at 0”, .010”, .020”, .040” and .050” to get figures to compare to any other 36 cam. This cam is closest to the early Porsche Super cam. (Intake Opening) 17 degree, (Intake Closing) 45 degree, (Exhaust Opening) 49 degree, (Exhaust Closing) 7 degree = 242 degree duration intake. 236 degree duration exhaust and all at .040” or 1 mm. Valve lift is 325 intake valve and 302”exhaust.

The full flow case oil in drilling is 29/64” drill ¾” deep and topper with ¼’ NPT elbow. 21 mm VW ported oil pump with .004 gasket.

This engine build had been started by three different people so some things are being compromised to get everything to fit. The case has been decked on both sides, has 8 mm inserts installed, bored out for big bore 40 HP piston and cylinder and the cam thrust cut for a Porsche long bearing cam. Newport has a 36 HP cam so a way to keep the cam’s end-play in check had to be made. I added .063” to the oil pump drive tang and made sure everything is free and not binding.

Pictures will be posted soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope that he gets into the 1 club!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it when you talk dirty Tom. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like it's a good engine to build Tom. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Sweating in the Iowa sun Reply with quote

Mr Bville be busy this summer!

Burly
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avus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking forward to this one. More, please.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom, Whats in store for your 130mph attack? I can't wait till Sept.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news Tom, looking forward to seeing you again and meeting Tom and his buggy.

brad
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: 1602 cc motor photo Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This photo is shows the oil drain holes and boat tailing the main webs for minimum windage.

Bvilletom
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bvilletom
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: 1602 cc motor Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I having problems learning this picture stuff . This case is now together,end play, set oil pump on and now into cyl & stud clearance issues.

Bvilletom
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1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1602 cc motor photo Reply with quote

bvilletom wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This photo is shows the oil drain holes and boat tailing the main webs for minimum windage.

Bvilletom


Thank-you for posting this pic, getting ready to do the same to my case.

Nice seeing you post again Tom, thought you fell off the edge of the earth
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: fun plans Reply with quote

Meciscokid

Well you are right, we would like to attack the the 130mph with a 36hp Ghia. It would sure be nice to be the 1st 36hp to do it. Sometimes when you plan too hard it dosent happen. Gaylon just got the Ghia back from the paint shop today, Lumas full cage, body off race car build saftey stuff, drop spindles, 3.88 new box, and about 4 deck lids.
We plan to have the turbo 1378cc 36 with some up grades and this new 1602cc 36 and maybe a big block to play with. We want to be able switch motors between the ghia and the buggy
Its alot of work!
Bvilletom
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bvilletom
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1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom: Enjoy the specs of your build, but would you post what heads you are using and what mods you made to them.
Thanks
Frank
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Mr. Motorhead
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor Build for 1602cc 36 HP Reply with quote

bvilletom wrote:

The camshaft is from Mr. Motorhead and is his #2 which I degreed at 0”, .010”, .020”, .040” and .050” to get figures to compare to any other 36 cam. This cam is closest to the early Porsche Super cam. (Intake Opening) 17 degree, (Intake Closing) 45 degree, (Exhaust Opening) 49 degree, (Exhaust Closing) 7 degree = 242 degree duration intake. 236 degree duration exhaust and all at .040” or 1 mm. Valve lift is 325 intake valve and 302”exhaust.



Good to finally get some solid numbers on this cam, I knew you'd be the guy to get them, Tom. It is by far the more popular grind of the two I sell with well over 200 sold since I started selling them in 2006. It's good to have it in someone hands to get a comparison of other like grinds. While I have seen the insides a lot of different engines and parts, you have 20 years more time than I do so thanks for sharing. Don't worry, you'll figure out the picture thing......you got past the culture shock of when steam locomotives went diesel didn't you?
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: The build continues Reply with quote

Now I'm into the piston and cylinders. The clearancing of the cylinder to studs is a real bear. Everything connected to cylinder, stud lengths , sheet metal & spacer construction as well as fitting is a very time consuming & frustrating job. I'm aiming for 1 mm deck with Wolfsburg West (W.W.) new heads. I think I have had this thing together and apart 100 times already. I have tried upper VW sheet metal from 36, 40, single port & dual port 1.6, to find some that will seal up & center on both the generator & fan housing, and still mount on the dual port W,W. Okrasa heads with minimum cutting and bending. The single port 1.5/1.6 upper tin is what I ended up with fitting the best.

The cylinder spacers fabrication I did differently this time. They were very accurately cut out of 1/2" aluminum plate by a water jet machine. The water jet cutting of spacers I would highly recommend. Then I hand made the notches for the 8 mm studs to fit the cylinders, followed by a mock up with heads to see what I had to cut off the flat ends to wind up with .040" deck with W.W. Okrasa heads. I had a machinist remove 1.50 mm.

Another challenge is that I want to be able to change intake manifolds without ripping sheet metal off & fan housing, etc. When you read the W.W. installation instruction, they want you to install the manifolds & upper tin together. If I do it right, I will modify the tin to let me change manifolds, Speedwell, to W.W. or to turbo, etc.

One of the reasons I'm writing up this build is that some folks think that you just buy a W.W. kit, Porsche crank & some big bore cylinders and just bolt it together; instead it seems to be one obstacle after another. I see another one now where I need 4 internal 8:1.25 hex nuts for the two center W.W. 8 mm short head studs!

I think it is time to work on the heads for a while now.

Bvilletom
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bvilletom
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1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom; I wonder if the use of Porsche pre A 356 or later 356A sheet metal might be a different choice for your use. There are several different versions that could be adapted to your use. And using a early 356 fan housing would work. Just a thought as you get deeper in the build.
Thanks
Frank.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom I just use 13 mm 8 mm internal coupling nuts (same nuts used on some bolt on valve covers) for the center studs. Where did you find the 8mm center studs? I got some from MSC Direct.

Keep the info coming
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: 1602 build Reply with quote

Fcampbell356

The heads are a new set of WW/Okrasa and the goal is to optimize air flow with out big valves, etc with my flow bench. I will post results and other things i notice. I come from a 356 background , you are right about the 356 sheet metal but early on in this thread I noted some comprises with this build,he wants this setup. The best and easy ones to build are the 1582cc or larger, Porsche crank, rods, [email protected] and it all fits in 36 tin. We have to stay in the 36 challenge rules.

Bvilletom
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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Tom:
Thanks for the post, and keep up with build. We will keep watching.
Thanks
Frank
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bvilletom
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: 1602cc build Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I am making some headway now, the full flow case drilling came straight and centered .

Bvilletom
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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction
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