Motor Build for 1602cc 36 HP

[Das Dragon]

[p912s]

Thanks for sharing the build info! Can't wait to see it run this fall.

Scot
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Harig Land Speed Racing - http://www.turbokafer.com
'69 Beetle, turbo 1915
'67 912, 1720 w/Dell's; 1911 T4 under construction

[oldbusboy]

Looking good.

Interested to know how this motor performs with that grind and if it could be a daily driver set-up or not?

Trevor
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1968 porsche

[bvilletom]

Well, I finally have the long block done. I was held up waiting for the heads to come back from the machinist so I could trial fit heads, cylinders and spacers to determine the stud lengths and see if the deck clearance was figured correctly. I wanted a tight deck clearance of .040” and got it. I had the heads opened up for the 40 HP big bore cylinders and milled .100” to get a 10 to 1 compression area. The head chambers were 45 cc before and .100” off makes them 36 cc now which with the 1602 cc size puts the C R. at 10.63; remember this a Bonneville high altitude motor. I can always un-shroud the valves more or add a shim. I will write a head impression post later it was a little frustrating, to say the least!

The cylinder clearance work sucks. I did it without a mill and it took forever. A combination of tools like 4” angle grinder with 1/4” rough disc worked the best with other tools you don’t want to even know about. I just kept working away and fitting them to the case and studs until I had good clearance. Then I blended the fins followed by a light coat of black paint to make things look better.

Now with 8 mm studs, you have to shorten every one to get them to come out right. The four short ones have to be exactly the right length to fit into the 8 mm internal hex nuts or you can’t assembly them. The nuts are from the 911 heater box and they fit perfectly. I measured 3 sets of 8 mm stud diameters and they vary a lot. I put threads on the four largest diameter studs and made them the short ones and that end is screwed into the case inserts.

Another problem is the cylinder O.D. fin area width, the 36 hp sheet metal won’t fit, and it’s not wide enough. I guess I could grind the fins down but that didn’t seem logical, so I’m using the later VW tin from the 1600 cc single port; it is wide enough & I have to modify it for the Wolfsburg West heads anyway as well as all the manifolds including Speedwell.

I personally don’t think the difference between 1582 cc and 1602 cc is worth all this extra effort for the fabrication of a one off motor.

In my next post on heads, I’ll discuss some real gems that showed up on the flow bench.

Bvilletom

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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction

[avus]

Tom, I believe you could build a race motor using nothing but a rock and a railroad spike!

[Mr. Motorhead]

[36hplandspeedracer]

I'm sayin' the spike goes in the square jack hole you you can use a non-VW jack to lift the car/bus? Just my guess...............

Burly

[avus]

[Suboval]

Bottle opener?
_________________
It all works on paper.

There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history.

[Mr. Motorhead]

Okay, I'll give. When you sell retail you meet a lot of different interesting people. There used to be a local crew that I used to know that could be described for lack of a better word as "Hillbillies". The favorite tool of choice with this crowd is of course a hammer. They all seemed to be a blacksmith (of sorts) that worked on aircooled VWs. So here it is. You take a railroad spike (dense iron, not steel) and give it a slight bend. Make a nice dull, flat end. It's the perfect tool for knocking off a stubborn pulley when you core out an engine. If you put it in just the right spot, you don't hurt the pulley at all and comes off in one hit (!). And yeah, if you have a rock intead of a hammer it does work on beer bottles too. There are also some other interesting things you can do with two or more hammers when dissembling a car but that is another story.......
_________________
30 years experience in the sales of new and used auto parts!
36 horsepower parts for sale at http://www.aircooledresearch.com/
Or the new site at http://www.bugparts.com
Check out the Bonneville project:
http://aircooledresearch.com/docs/thebonnevilleproject.html#

"All limitations are self imposed."
Some Chinese guy

[36hplandspeedracer]

Well that explains the Mad Scientist and your icon(?). I am glad we asked!

Burly

[bvilletom]

The Rock and Spike (according to some folks I could build an engine with just those tools) weren’t working too well according to my flow bench results.

I have a new Wolfsburg West/Okrasa kit before me. What I plan on doing is optimize a production set WW reads to get maximum flow without big valves and welding, etc.

First I’m going to flow the ports alone (no valves in) to see if the ports can be improved and how equal they are. Later this becomes important when you fit different manifolds, to see why some increase flow and some don’t. Many times it’s the port’s shape that optimizes flow.

Next I’m going to flow test the intake and exhaust at lifts from .050” to .500” (if possible). I will have a complete head flow test sheet just as it is new out of the box. Then I’ll have another flow test sheet after modifying the same thing to compare. In other words, test flow results before and after modifying.

The next thing that needs work is the valve seats which are sunk into the chamber floor as much as 1.4 mm with very sharp edges all around the seat. I will grind and blend the chamber to be as flush with the seat tops as possible and un-shroud the nearest chamber wall slightly. I did not touch the valve or seat; this was an exhaust valve. Then I rounded off the flat aluminum ledge on each side of the exhaust valve guide blending it into the port shape and removing a slight amount off the casting flash. When I tested the port, the flow increase was impressive at .10”of H2O. The exhaust ports flowed 54 to 57 CFM before any modification and with a very small amount of work they are now .65.5 to 67.5 CFM.

The Wolfsburg West exhaust ports flow very well in the mid range, .200” to .350” which is better than the original Okrasa head. Next with a slight bit more work of shaping the port and widening around the guide boss as well as shaping the valve (backcut, etc.) it will flow better than a stock 1600 dual port with only the stock 28 mm WW exhaust valve.

Bvilletom


The first photo is the valve seat before modification

The second photo is of the ledge at the exhaust valve seat guide

The third photo is the chamber area blended to the valve seat

In the fourth photo, the right head is done the left one is not

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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction

[ralphd]

It lives.

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Porsche 356 Super 90
Porsche 356 Normal
Replica Kubelwagen mit MG34
73 Type 181 Thing
Oval, 36hp und nichts anderes

[splitpile]

[bvilletom]

The intake ports were a real learning lesson; the ports are very short in length with many sharp edges causing a turbulent, jumpy airflow. I generally don’t like to flow the head ports with the intake manifolds on because sometimes it is a crutch to get really good flow numbers. Everybody wants to say that their heads flow more than anyone else’s heads, what they really mean is my heads with manifold on will flow better than your heads. They don’t mention that the test was with the manifold versus without a manifold, so you don’t know if you’re comparing equal test components.

The Wolfsburg West intake ports are pretty good, I blended slightly and that was it. Then I started to play with different intake manifolds,
WOW!

This head was the most intake manifold dependent unit I have ever seen. You can gain or lose great amounts of CFM just by the manifold choice. Here are the flow figures for the head, intake port flows 54.9 CFM alone.

1. Put on an old Okrasa or a new Wolfsburg West manifolds; both had flows that varied from: .…………………………………………… 55.5 CFM to 57.9 CFM
2. Put on the handmade Brukrasa single port manifold, flow is…. 59 CFM
3. Put on a new SPEEDWELL manifold , flow goes to …………………….67 CFM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In summary, a manifold that is tapered and fairly long, gives the head's port a rush of a laminar flowing column of air which smoothes out most of the turbulent problems in the short head port. More drastic porting and shaping of ports could possibly make way more CFM. But look at this gain alone with stock valve and seat and practically no intake porting, a 12.1 CFM was accomplished just by bolting on a manifold!

By spending a couple more weeks time continuing the tests would result in more improvement in CFM, like value and seat shaping. However, the is not time for this additional work before the motor needs to be completed.
This is the first set of Wolfsburg West heads I have ever tested on my bench.

Bvilletom
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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction

[splitpile]

NICE. I'm pulling last years Bonneville engine and putting on SPEEDWELL mainfolds, 40P11 Solexs and SPEEDWELLS 1.25 rockers next week. Can't wait to see if it'll pull more then the current 64hp with the new mods. You give me insperation Tom. If SPEEDWELL doesn't come through with the rockers can I borrow yours!!
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line"

[ralphd]

It's not every day you see a 36hp block with 48mm carbs.

_________________
Porsche 356 Super 90
Porsche 356 Normal
Replica Kubelwagen mit MG34
73 Type 181 Thing
Oval, 36hp und nichts anderes

[bvilletom]

The Newport 36 hp 1602cc story goes on. The first run at the Bonneville Salt Flats in the Anderson 36 HP Karmen Ghia, DSS (Dual Super stock) class, we broke the dyno tuned Denzel Ghia speed record of 105 mph with a 108.186 mph run and backed it up with a 107.728 mph at the USFRA meet. This was the high compression 1602 cc street motor with a Mr. Motorhead #2 street cam, vintage Solex carbs and Wolfsburg West heads with STOCK SIZED VALVES, just blueprinted to the hilt.

Then we put it in Tom Newport's VW buggy and he drove it to the fastest 36 HP VW Dune buggy speed of 97.77 mph. He made 6 passes all between 95 mph and 97+ mph.

We finished the meet with the motor in good shape and the valves only loosened up less than .002". The motor seems to be a really good torque motor. With a more racy cam and the 48 IDF webers, it will be a much higher RPM motor.

We haven't even taken the breakin oil out yet!

BvilleTom
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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction

[ONEBADBUG]

Nice work Tom. I really enjoyed talking to you. Twin sons of different mothers! Did I ever tell you about my punkin chunker?

[bvilletom]

Yes, we are twin sons from different mothers and fathers! I guess you would call it kindred spirits.

Bvilletom
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bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph

1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction