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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: Castellated nut removal needed? |
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Do I need to remove the castellated nut to replace the rear wheel cylinder on my '77 bus?
I have the drum off and it looks to the naked eye like it would be nice to have the extra space there with the rear wheel hub gone, but it is a royal PAIN to get the castellated nut off and I would have to go invest in some more specific tools to get it off.
(I think the rear wheel hub and brake drum are one piece on earlier bays)
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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Daverham
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Joined: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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No you do not.
Remove those two silly little bolts that you see inbetween the wheel studs and the drum will pull right off OVER the big nut.
Keep in mind that it may need a little coaxing, banging etc. And, of course, make sure your parking brake is off. |
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Daverham
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Joined: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Oh sorry. I see you already have the drum off - different question.
Well then... Still, the answer is NO. I've changed wheel cylinders on my 78 without removing the hubs. No problem. Carry on! |
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Daverham wrote: |
Oh sorry. I see you already have the drum off - different question.
Well then... Still, the answer is NO. I've changed wheel cylinders on my 78 without removing the hubs. No problem. Carry on! |
good. I've just been trying all afternoon to get this nut to turn and i'm getting nothing.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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Daverham
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Joined: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Skip it. Just do your wheel cylinder with the hub in place!
Remove the shoes/springs/cable. One steel brake line. One bolt from the back. Pops right out.
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Daverham wrote: |
Skip it. Just do your wheel cylinder with the hub in place!
Remove the shoes/springs/cable. One steel brake line. One bolt from the back. Pops right out.
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Thanks for the pic!! that is very helpful!
I wish mine looked as clean as that. It has been leaking brake fluid for a while, which has collected lots of gunk, so it is hard to see what I am working with.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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Vince Waldon
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Joined: November 07, 2010
Posts: 451
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Should you not be aware, older brake shoes (and clutches for that matter) were made using asbestos... so always a good idea to resist the urge to hit things with compressed air when cleaning up the gunk... never know how old the shoes are.  |
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince Waldon wrote: |
| Should you not be aware, older brake shoes (and clutches for that matter) were made using asbestos... so always a good idea to resist the urge to hit things with compressed air when cleaning up the gunk... never know how old the shoes are. |
good to know! thanks. I don't think these shoes are that old, although I may replace them if I can afford it as long as I have the drum off.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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If they are brake fluid soaked you need to replace them anyway.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Daverham wrote: |
And, of course, make sure your parking brake is off and your front wheels are blocked off.
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Fixed it for you
I just redid my CV joints and almost rolled out of the garage. Nobody should have to learn from that experience.
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:41 am Post subject: |
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There are several advantages to removing the castellated nut and the hub. For one it is just easier to get at all the brake stuff and get everything clean. Two you can replace the rear wheel seal, a part that needs occasional replacement.
For about $10 you can buy a slug wrench from you local VW shop that will make removal of the nut fairly easy.
Looks just like this one, but it is 46mm.
http://www.busdepot.com/5748
Here is what you want, but no picture. 
http://www.busdepot.com/5747 |
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BusBerd
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Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
| If they are brake fluid soaked you need to replace them anyway. |
Why?? Can't I just clean them off really good with brake cleaner or something?? There is plenty of wear left on the shoes.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Raw brake fluid is water soluble so should clean off fine, not so sure about well burnt brake fluid. My old early '70s Land Cruiser was pretty notorious for leaking fluid and I can't ever remember changing out the shoes because of that. Oil and grease are a different matter, they can really change the friction characteristics of the linings, even then some people would just throw them in the fire pit and give them a good heating to clean them. Can't say I have ever tried that one though. |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| BusBerd wrote: |
| Desertbusman wrote: |
| If they are brake fluid soaked you need to replace them anyway. |
Why?? Can't I just clean them off really good with brake cleaner or something??
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Evidently it soaks in, that's what I heard.
Last week I replaced the rear shoes on my bug even thought they had hardly any wear. The reason was a lining came unbonded from it's steel shoe. And the wheel cylinder had been leaking and the shoes were damp. Did the adhesive fail because of brake fluid? Who knows. We do know that brake fluid is compatable with very very few materials.
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
| Last week I replaced the rear shoes on my bug even thought they had hardly any wear. |
Sure seem to be seeing more frequent lining failure for both brakes and clutches. I don't seem to be able to get full life out of either any more. Can anyone spell cheap foreign crap? |
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BusBerd
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Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered a new set of brake shoes just in case. what the hell.
FYI, I DID finally get the castellated nut off. I cleaned up the area as much as I could. sandblasted and painted the backing plate and hardware.
the other side should be much quicker now that I know what I'm doing.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| BusBerd wrote: |
I ordered a new set of brake shoes just in case. what the hell.
FYI, I DID finally get the castellated nut off. I cleaned up the area as much as I could. sandblasted and painted the backing plate and hardware.
the other side should be much quicker now that I know what I'm doing. |
Sounds like you're doing great.
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Sure seem to be seeing more frequent lining failure for both brakes and clutches. I don't seem to be able to get full life out of either any more. Can anyone spell cheap foreign crap? |
True that! It's gotten too common. However the new shoes I got clearly said Made In China. And I very carefully gave them an intense visual inspection for everything I could think of. Outstanding packaging, accuracy of pad bonding location, chamfer on leading ends of the friction material, consistancy of everything, etc. Actually They by far are the besting looking shoes I've seen in decades. Scarry, huh?
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atmellovw
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Joined: September 05, 2006
Posts: 1652
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BusBerd wrote: |
I ordered a new set of brake shoes just in case. what the hell.
FYI, I DID finally get the castellated nut off. I cleaned up the area as much as I could. sandblasted and painted the backing plate and hardware.
the other side should be much quicker now that I know what I'm doing. |
Note that if you removed the backing plate you are supposed to apply a bead of non-hardening sealant where the backing plate meets the bearing housing.
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1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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BusBerd
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Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| atmellovw wrote: |
| BusBerd wrote: |
I ordered a new set of brake shoes just in case. what the hell.
FYI, I DID finally get the castellated nut off. I cleaned up the area as much as I could. sandblasted and painted the backing plate and hardware.
the other side should be much quicker now that I know what I'm doing. |
Note that if you removed the backing plate you are supposed to apply a bead of non-hardening sealant where the backing plate meets the bearing housing. |
Thank you! I did not know that.
Time to re-read the bentley...
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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