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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: My attempt at a 1904 |
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well, i have this:
need to jam it in this
and stuff it in here
the build:
1904
full flow (filter and cooler)
mocal sandwich plate adapter
110 cam (reusing cam and lifters. all checked out fine)
ac.net L3 heads
90.5 p/c's
74mm crank
13 lb flywheel
5.3 rods
berg o ring 26mm oil pump
stock (well aftermarket) heater boxes
1 3/8 header
019 distrubutor
34 ICT's
dual pressure relief case
10mm studs w/case savers
.040 deck 8.1 compression
62cc chambers
^^^^^^^^^^^^
may have missed something
i am hoping for a decent amount of torque. i may or may not get it dyno'ed, the shop that will be doing the balance job has a dyno.
so what do you think? did i miss anything? any shoulda-woulda-coulda things i should know about? this is my first stroker, i think i did my research but you never know. i am all about doing it right the first time.
all my measurements seem ok. not crazy about the rod side play it seemed a bit big. i used plastigauge on all the bearings, mic'ed the ones i couldn't and the oil clearance is .002 average. seems about right from what i have read.
i have mocked this thing up about 100 times, and still have another 100 to go. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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jfats808 Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007 Posts: 5022 Location: oahu hawaii
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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It'll do. I would've went a 15lb flywheel personally and the h beams are overkill. Everything looks good to go for a daily. _________________ 2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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75smith Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 2275 Location: NH
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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looks good, the carburetors may be a bit restrictive, would have gone with Dual Weber 40 IDF's
also agree with the flywheel, 15 pounds might have been better(all opinion on this one I think)
are you gonna post build pictures along the way? I think it would be nice to see more of these short strokers built and with pictures _________________ My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
My engine build |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76902 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Dual 40mm Dellorto DRLAs and a Bosch 019. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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SRP1 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4340
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Looks pretty good.
The 5.3" rods will pull harder on the intake track which will help with low RPM torque.
The higher piston speed will also help improve the signal to the carbs, are you familiar with the idle quality from a 110 cam when running ict's?
Clearences sound ok, not sure what I can say here when using plastigauge other than make sure nothing goes under .002" a little more is better at the #1 and #2 mains.
Sounds like this engine will be perfect for 10w-30 or lighter oil.
Did you check the end play in the oil pump gears? |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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75smith wrote: |
are you gonna post build pictures along the way? I think it would be nice to see more of these short strokers built and with pictures |
yea, i will document this all the way through. it will be painfully slow.....
Glenn wrote: |
Dual 40mm Dellorto DRLAs and a Bosch 019. |
yep
SRP1 wrote: |
Looks pretty good.
The 5.3" rods will pull harder on the intake track which will help with low RPM torque.
The higher piston speed will also help improve the signal to the carbs, are you familiar with the idle quality from a 110 cam when running ict's?
Clearences sound ok, not sure what I can say here when using plastigauge other than make sure nothing goes under .002" a little more is better at the #1 and #2 mains.
Sounds like this engine will be perfect for 10w-30 or lighter oil.
Did you check the end play in the oil pump gears? |
as far as the oil pump gears...are we talking the slop when the gear is inserted in the cam, or backlash in general?
all you 1bbl hating punk bastards fine. i will go big or go home. will dual hpmx 40's work? i refuse to spend 1K+ on carbs based on principal. i'm not cheap, but come on, that would accout for at least 1/3 of the cost of the engine.
a little back story....i bought this as a 1776. i tossed around the idea of a stroker and read aircooled.net's no machine stroker write up. let me tell you, the mini stroker for under 1K is pretty far fetched. i suppose if i could walk in to a aircooled shop, things may be different, but shipping has proven to gobble up at least 130.00+ of the 'budget'. not to mention, i'm about as anal retentive as they come, so everything is getting balanced. nothing gives you the warm fuzzies like pouring more money into new parts
but, it is what it is. do it right, and quit complaining! now, what are my carb options? you money spending sons of.... _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think your original parts list is fine with one exception.................drop the 90.5's and get a set of machine in 88's. Your combo will match up better with 1800cc's rather than 1904cc's. _________________
Mitey62 wrote: |
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
RockCrusher wrote: |
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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you can do it for under $1k, but you have to be willing to do a lot of the work yourself. Like clearancing the case.
If you are like me you say "eff that" and buy the H-beam rods so they drop right in without clearancing. That's $270 "wasted which blows the "budget", but it's easier! All the optional stuff is what allows the price to get away from you.
We had one guy who we just heard back from in Florida, he retained his stock cam and FI, and used his stock rods and flywheel, so he could afford a pair of L3 heads. Stock rods require a lot more clearancing, H-beams drop in without it.
Came in well under budget for his Type 3, and he's VERY happy with it.
It all depends on what your time is worth. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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SRP1 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4340
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Nah, stay with the 1904 and if the ict's don't meet the need once underway then step up the carbs to dual 40 idf's. Easy bolt on option at that point.
What ring and pinion is in that bus? I think the13lbs flywheel will be just right with the added crank weight being the crank is counterweight, and stroked.
Stock crank and 13lbs flywheel not so much, but thats a much different combo.
I think the combo is pretty close to perfect if you sit down figure in all the changes and factors involved when compared to a stock engine. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: |
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John....no worries. My time is worth something for sure. I am of the mindset spend your time or spend your money....don't spend both. I really don't have a buget but I don't *need* this engine. It is being built because I have nothing going on right now.
As for switching pistons/cylinders not gonna happen. What I have now is what I'm running with.
Now should I seriously look into carbs? You guys have me worried that I will want to kick a puppy if I run the ICT's (which I already have). Tell the truth...I'm a big boy and can handle it. SRP...you have been more help than you know and I value your input. As far as a ring and pinion I am unsure. The po claimed a freeway flier. I am turning about 35 3600 at an honest gps'ed 68 mph
If you think the ict will run like a bag of shit I am willing to buy some hpmx's I just worry that old used carbs will be walking backwards. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
Last edited by skills@eurocarsplus on Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: |
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yep studying the hell outta different parts is where/how you can save a little build money. mock up is to come possibly later this week but it really looks like with my 5.5" Revmaster I beams and 92b's i may not have to do any clearancing and if so it's going to be VERY minimal and they were $125 shipped to my door. i dug around and got my web 163 and web lifters for and $35 less than the next cheapest place and almost $50 cheaper than if i went straight to web. i'm still well over a grand but probably still under 2 grand and for a 2021 i'll be happy with that...ken.... _________________ ITMC
Secret Service |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I really don't like dual 1bbls, but of all of them ICTs are the best ones. For the engine you are building they are fine, especially if you already have them! Just don't get your panties in a wad about the "idles on 2 cylinders" thing that all dual 1bbls have. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:06 am Post subject: |
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No wadded panties here. I do have the balance tube in it now and that allowed me to tap for my power brakes.
The only change I was going to do to them was use tall cast iron manifolds and a re jet. Is this a good plan? I have the shorty alum. manifolds now
If I do use them am I really cheating myself? It is going in a bus that probably won't see over 4500 rpms. I am also using stock heater boxes. My thought is why suck it in if I can't blow it out.....
But I'm not opposed to different carbs if the icts will cause any lean or overheating issues. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: |
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for your build the ICTs will be fine. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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SRP1 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4340
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:02 am Post subject: |
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And now......we've come full circle...
Lets get to building that little beast. |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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What is the condition of the 90.5's and are you matching the camlobe with it's original lifter? or did they get all mixed up when the case was split? _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
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yamaducci wrote: |
What is the condition of the 90.5's and are you matching the camlobe with it's original lifter? or did they get all mixed up when the case was split? |
No issues with the pistons that I can tell. The machine shop will check before balancing. All the lifters hit the drain pan when I split the case. I took my landscape rake and stirred them real good.
Kidding give me some credit!
SRP.... I would love to get the lower end together but I am a few days out before I can drop the stuff of at the shop. I'm in no real rush but I am getting antsy. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
yamaducci wrote: |
What is the condition of the 90.5's and are you matching the camlobe with it's original lifter? or did they get all mixed up when the case was split? |
Kidding give me some credit!
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When in doubt hone and re-ring....
So then I assume you know which direction those c-clip piston clips go in that you have laying on the table there?
Looks good so far. Have you decided on your sealers of choice? _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Hone and ring for sure. I am going to install the pin clips in line with the rod like I do on my 2 stroke stuff. More than likely the open end will face the piston....unless I have been doing it wrong
Sealers....curil t for case and ultra grey for cylinders _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4919 Location: Southern AB
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