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sioux888
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2015
Posts: 98
Location: La Feria Texas
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 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:34 pm Post subject: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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This might be a pretty damn stupid question, but I've been looking on several topics and google pages finding a lot of different opinions.
I have a 1970 VW bus, long story short, I activate the turn signal lever to the right, both dashboard indicators light up at the same time, same when I activate the lever to the left. Is this the way it works? Pretty much the same as activating the hazard light switch.
Not a big deal, I reckon I can remember which direction I active the lever. Just trying to figure out if this is the way it is. It seems some old cars operate this way, some other ones, depending on the year and model, light up the indicator light side you activate on the turn signal lever. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| sioux888 wrote: |
| Is this the way it works? |
Yes |
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sioux888
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2015
Posts: 98
Location: La Feria Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| Alright! Thanks man. |
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P24p1
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020
Posts: 363
Location: Canada, Quebec
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| sioux888 wrote: |
| I reckon I can remember which direction I active the lever. |
Yeah, I think the Germans reckoned it too! Otherwise, someone who doesn't remember which way the lever was flicked probably shouldn't drive 
_________________
1973 Westfalia named Angie
What rust?
Rev it - don't lug it! |
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ImAddicted
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 1195
Location: Unorganized Territory, Maine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| P24p1 wrote: |
| sioux888 wrote: |
| I reckon I can remember which direction I active the lever. |
Yeah, I think the Germans reckoned it too! Otherwise, someone who doesn't remember which way the lever was flicked probably shouldn't drive |
BMW is eliminating the indicators as they are never used...
_________________
1979 Transporter (sold)
KC1MUR
| strfish7 wrote: |
| Original condition, which means something different on this forum than anywhere else! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| sioux888 wrote: |
This might be a pretty damn stupid question, but I've been looking on several topics and google pages finding a lot of different opinions.
I have a 1970 VW bus, long story short, I activate the turn signal lever to the right, both dashboard indicators light up at the same time, same when I activate the lever to the left. Is this the way it works? Pretty much the same as activating the hazard light switch.
Not a big deal, I reckon I can remember which direction I active the lever. Just trying to figure out if this is the way it is. It seems some old cars operate this way, some other ones, depending on the year and model, light up the indicator light side you activate on the turn signal lever. |
If you want your two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal in USA parlance) warning lights to operate independently, try the following modified circuit.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1982286
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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Nigel,
As the turn indicator lamps are commoned to switched +12 volts, how do you change their common reference to earth instead? If it was in your schematic, I must have missed it...
Another way of doing this is to have the front turn indicators drive the coils on two small relays, and then rewire the turn indicators such that each relay's contacts earth the appropriate turn indicator.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51150
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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So much fiddling and work for what exactly?, I can't remember the last time I looked to see if I got the signals right on any car while busy in traffic, I was too distracted looking out the windows to see who was going to hit me. 
The arrows are blinking.......I moved the switch in the direction I'm going..........job done, I'm busy now.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| ImAddicted wrote: |
BMW is eliminating the indicators as they are never used... |
that's funny shit right there
| busdaddy wrote: |
So much fiddling and work for what exactly?, I can't remember the last time I looked to see if I got the signals right on any car while busy in traffic, I was too distracted looking out the windows to see who was going to hit me.
The arrows are blinking.......I moved the switch in the direction I'm going..........job done, I'm busy now. |
yup...and the later buses only had the 1 indicator with <> printed on it
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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ivwshane
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1920
Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| sioux888 wrote: |
This might be a pretty damn stupid question, but I've been looking on several topics and google pages finding a lot of different opinions.
I have a 1970 VW bus, long story short, I activate the turn signal lever to the right, both dashboard indicators light up at the same time, same when I activate the lever to the left. Is this the way it works? Pretty much the same as activating the hazard light switch.
Not a big deal, I reckon I can remember which direction I active the lever. Just trying to figure out if this is the way it is. It seems some old cars operate this way, some other ones, depending on the year and model, light up the indicator light side you activate on the turn signal lever. |
If you want your two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal in USA parlance) warning lights to operate independently, try the following modified circuit.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1982286
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I really wish I could fully understand your diagram because I know it lays it out perfectly.
It looks like you have the white/black wire and black/green wire going directly to their respective bulb and bypassing the metal contact plate. Is that correct? Are the two wires pigtailed/branching off the relay or before the relay?
Have you done this mod?
_________________
77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| telford dorr wrote: |
Nigel,
As the turn indicator lamps are commoned to switched +12 volts, how do you change their common reference to earth instead? If it was in your schematic, I must have missed it.... |
Originally the supply to both indicator lights is common as is the ground. You would need to split the supply while leaving the ground alone. |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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Perhaps Nigel used the 2-regular-terminal twist-in bulb holders that used to be available. They are
otherwise identical to the stock units that have one lead of the bulb connected to the "live metal contact plate".
If so, he would do well to mention that in his diagram. That's how I rewired my indicator warning lights to
properly show which side of the vehicle has its indicators blinking. Over twenty years later, it still makes me smile to see that enormous wrong righted.
Also, I do believe he misidentifies the terminal "54BL" on the turn signal switch as being "49a". Or were non-USA
market vehicles different?
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
So much fiddling and work for what exactly?, I can't remember the last time I looked to see if I got the signals right on any car while busy in traffic, I was too distracted looking out the windows to see who was going to hit me.
The arrows are blinking.......I moved the switch in the direction I'm going..........job done, I'm busy now. |
All too often, I have witnessed drivers giving a direction-indicator signal to turn in one direction, but actually turn in the opposite direction.
It is my conviction that all vehicles should be equipped with separate warning lights to unambiguously show on which side of the vehicle, the direction-indicator lamps have been activated. It would also be prudent to incorporate as standard (to optimise ergonomics!) a warning light to show that trailer direction indicators are functioning correctly.
Different cars have different configurations of direction-indicator stalk-switch location; typically being on either the right-hand or left-hand sides of the steering column; something I noted when driving a variety of cars such as an early-1970s vintage Hillman Hunter, 1974 Triumph Toledo, 1972 Fiat 124 Special T, 1977 Honda Civic, 1982 Honda Accord, 1986 Ford Sierra XR4x4 and 2004 SEAT Leon Cupra 20VT.
| ivwshane wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| sioux888 wrote: |
This might be a pretty damn stupid question, but I've been looking on several topics and google pages finding a lot of different opinions.
I have a 1970 VW bus, long story short, I activate the turn signal lever to the right, both dashboard indicators light up at the same time, same when I activate the lever to the left. Is this the way it works? Pretty much the same as activating the hazard light switch.
Not a big deal, I reckon I can remember which direction I active the lever. Just trying to figure out if this is the way it is. It seems some old cars operate this way, some other ones, depending on the year and model, light up the indicator light side you activate on the turn signal lever. |
If you want your two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal in USA parlance) warning lights to operate independently, try the following modified circuit.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1982286
|
I really wish I could fully understand your diagram because I know it lays it out perfectly.
It looks like you have the white/black wire and black/green wire going directly to their respective bulb and bypassing the metal contact plate. Is that correct? Are the two wires pigtailed/branching off the relay or before the relay?
Have you done this mod? |
Yes, I did this modification several years ago, but I have yet to complete the vehicle and drive it on the road. Others have done it to their vehicles following my instructions.
| kreemoweet wrote: |
Perhaps Nigel used the 2-regular-terminal twist-in bulb holders that used to be available. They are otherwise identical to the stock units that have one lead of the bulb connected to the "live metal contact plate".
If so, he would do well to mention that in his diagram. That's how I rewired my indicator warning lights to properly show which side of the vehicle has its indicators blinking. Over twenty years later, it still makes me smile to see that enormous wrong righted.
Also, I do believe he misidentifies the terminal "54BL" on the turn signal switch as being "49a". Or were non-USA market vehicles different? |
Non-USA specification, 1968~71 VW Type 2s are very different with regard to the rear tail lights', brake lights' and direction-indicator lights' electrical circuits! the RED rear direction-indicators, are illegal here on vehicles first used in 1965 onward. Hence or otherwise, we have much simpler electrical circuitry, which I believe is like that of the USA specification, 1972~79 VW Type 2s.
For the foreseeable future, owing to COVID-19 restrictions, I shall be unable to provide an updated diagram which includes information about using modified original bulb holders or alternative bulb holders with insulated 2.8 mm spade connections, as commonly found in VDO Cockpit gauges.
Having limited Internet access time in my friend's green house (no power supply!) using a borrowed laptop every few days, I didn't have time to include the information about bulb holders, before the battery ran down! 
Try this topic thread:
Forum Index > Bay Window Bus > Independent direction-indicator warning light upgrade
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=259622
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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The link posted just above by Nigel has the "h" cut off from the "http" so you have to fix it to go there.
In that linked thread, Nigel gives a part number for a VDO bulb holder, which I got nowhere with.
I came up with a different VDO part number, 600-840, for a similar bulb holder, but was unable to determine
if it was suitable for the indicator warning light mod discussed above. CIP1 has it, pretty cheap.
I also came across a VW part #437-919-039, which seems to be the desired part. It's discontinued by VW, but
supposedly available in the US at https://www.vancafe.com/437919039-p/437919039.htm
It's also available from Bus-OK in Europe for 5 euros or so, plus godonlyknows how much for shipping.
So now the rest of y'all can fix VW's terrible turn indicator dash light design, and be happy.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Instrument cluster indicator lights, left, right or both? |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
The link posted just above by Nigel has the "h" cut off from the "http" so you have to fix it to go there.
In that linked thread, Nigel gives a part number for a VDO bulb holder, which I got nowhere with.
I came up with a different VDO part number, 600-840, for a similar bulb holder, but was unable to determine if it was suitable for the indicator warning light mod discussed above. CIP1 has it, pretty cheap.
I also came across a VW part #437-919-039, which seems to be the desired part. It's discontinued by VW, but
supposedly available in the US at https://www.vancafe.com/437919039-p/437919039.htm
It's also available from Bus-OK in Europe for 5 euros or so, plus godonlyknows how much for shipping.
So now the rest of y'all can fix VW's terrible turn indicator dash light design, and be happy. |
As requested I have edited the link, reinstating the "h" of "https". In order to "properly" copy the link URLs these days, I need to omit at least one character and then reinstate the omitted characters afterwards; which I forgot to do. Whoops! 
The bulb holders illustrated at the link you provided appear to be the same as those to which I referred. THe VDO bulb-holder part number I quoted came from my British edition, 1992 VDO catalogue.
From what I recall of Bus-OK in Europe, their prices seem inordinately expensive to me!
You all have fun now, upgrading your VW Type 2s to a safer configuration! 
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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