Author |
Message |
Bubusse Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Rimouski, QC
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
First, I wouldn't put trouble-free and westy in the same sentence. Not that they're bad vehicules, just they're all at least 20 something years old and come with their share of trouble.
Now, I would still prefer to spend less at first (as long the body is in good shape) and keep money for whatever comes afterwards. Cos in my experience, even if you spend 15K on a van, chances are good that you will still need to spend more money afterwards.
One thing to remember, though everyone has a reason to sell, nobody will sell a perfect van for cheap.
Just keep your eyes open and be patient ! _________________ 89 manual Vanagon GL Wesfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
X2 on all buyers knowing there budget and having a plan to maintain the van.
With a minimum of three late model Vanaons registered, insured and maintained by myself, I know exactly what it costs per year to run a Vanagon.
It is a commitment
Very enjoyable and safe vehicle to travel in, work out of or use as a grocery getter.
Get what you can afford before someone else buys it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JeffRobenolt Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007 Posts: 1513 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree, I would want $25k for my Weekender if I ever would sell it. I have that into it with out counting all my labor.
I think some of the high priced vans for sale that still need a lot of work, see a van like ours for sale for $20K plus so they think theirs has to be worth 10-12k.
Mileage doesn't mean anything in these vans. I have a 1990 with 310k that is my daily driver and would not be afraid to drive it cross country.
I have an 1987 with 89k that has been parked since 1996 that probably would need $5-7K to make it reliable again
Jeff _________________ --------------------------------------------------------
jfats808 wrote: |
Most, some, few is not all. You can always learn something from everyone , even the fool. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Steelhead Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007 Posts: 1791 Location: Kentfield, CA
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Asking prices in the samba classifieds tend to be aspirational, because we (samba junkies) are the fools who tend to over-invest in these vehicles and then hope someone will pay us for that work.
Ebay is the best to understand at what price these actually trade, and craigslist asking prices tend to be a little more realistic (on average) than the samba.
That said, this is not a bubble and I firmly believe values are only stabilizing or going up from here. _________________ '77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
itsasyncro Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2010 Posts: 92
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In my experience, the the buy in is only the beginning.
You should expect low payment expences(a few hundred
a month) if you want to travel and return home with
minimal on the road fuss.
Jeff |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Captain Pike Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 3328 Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Try to score a rusted out 21 window spiltty. 5K for a no title,no floor,no engine or trans,no beam left. Add 15 to 20k and you will still need to paint it and get a new interior......... _________________ If You Build It______It Will Run
1959 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gauche1968 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2006 Posts: 1518
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You could spend 15 to 20K on a van and get totally hosed if you don't know exactly what you are getting into or you could spend 5K or less on something you KNOW needs some work, but is still driveable and campable in in the interim. Even if you need a new engine and transmission at some point, you are probably still coming out under $20K. That $15 to 20K van is probably going to need some work anyway...... _________________ 1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bubusse Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Rimouski, QC
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
exactly my point : they all need work. Live with it or buy something else ! _________________ 89 manual Vanagon GL Wesfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trimet Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2011 Posts: 3 Location: vancouver, wa
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's the market.
As others have pointed out, demand in the spring & summer goes up and sellers know that so prices go up.
Also, this is a vehicle design that is no longer made and except for the various Eurovan Westies & Eurobagos, since 1991. Every year some die and go to the scrap yard so the pool shrinks Those still in the market age and get less than desireable. Dream Westies will be for those with cash to burn.
I think there will always be a tiny percentage of the population who will desire a small camper ya can stand up in so a basic demand level will always be there until some manufacturer introduces a poptop van of similar design that's under $35K. Not likely. The VW California (westy-like camper) in Britain goes for over $50K.
scr |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3102 Location: Bozeman MT
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For some "real world" pricing feedback, I'll let you know what I paid and what I got. I've owned the van for almost 2 years and have put about 8k miles on it (my "daily driver" only gets about 2k per year, I bicycle to work and live close to lots of cool stuff).
$12,500 for a 91 full Westy automatic with...
NO rust, none anywhere including above the gas tank or any seams.
2 noticeable dents and some screwed up paint where the PO had a bra on for too long.
Immaculate interior.
ALL receipts for any work done since it was first bought in 1991.
New CV joints, brakes, windshield, heads, BFG TAs, and a handfull of other stuff.
It was also just down the road from my house. It was looking like a 2 to 5 day trip (complete with vacation time) just to look at a van I may not buy before this one popped up.
What I've done...
Put in a new GoWesty 2.3L (those new heads swallowed a valve and I just didn't want to live with the unknowns of a old bearings etc)
New propane tank.
New gas lines, tank, and reseal.
Some misc items.
What I want to do before taking it on a long road trip...
all new cooling system stuff and a new tranny (with LSD) to fix that wierd noise I hear from the final drive when I let off the gas. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nachtfalter Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 139 Location: Surf Beach California
|
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bubusse wrote: |
First, I wouldn't put trouble-free and westy in the same sentence. Not that they're bad vehicules, just they're all at least 20 something years old and come with their share of trouble.
Now, I would still prefer to spend less at first (as long the body is in good shape) and keep money for whatever comes afterwards. Cos in my experience, even if you spend 15K on a van, chances are good that you will still need to spend more money afterwards.
One thing to remember, though everyone has a reason to sell, nobody will sell a perfect van for cheap.
Just keep your eyes open and be patient ! |
I dont know man, mine is as trouble free as my 2009 ford truck. It really has only gotten upgrades to make it mine but nothing mechanical at all, and the wife and kids drive it everywhere. I guess I just lucked out.
It is, in my opinion, VW's best product, so I guess it makes sense that the prices are getting up there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kuleinc Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2007 Posts: 1604 Location: East Bay Area, California
|
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I bought my westy in January. I traveled 6 hours to get it. I paid $8500, a the time I thought it was an ok price. Then I got home and thought I paid too much. I now feel like I got a great deal. I've spent THOUSANDS on it since January in repairs and upgrades. Do I regret it? Nope. Still think I got a GREAT deal. Could I have gotten a better deal? YES.
I am now looking for a weekender layout tintop, and haven't seen any I would buy for the money people are asking. So I haven't bought one. I look everyday. I'm hoping when winter comes I can snag a good one, and have money left over for an engine swap for one of my vans. _________________ Check out our Our youtube channel: Https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-EbskIxNm6SYzsq4ugG81A
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496946 1987 VW Vanagon Westfalia with 1.8T |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bubusse Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Rimouski, QC
|
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
@Nachfalter : don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're a pile of trouble either. Actually, I've never been stranded with my van. Worst thing that happened while on the road is a partially failed clutch. Still had enough to take off so I drove home with no problem (being used to double-clutch trucks did help). My point was not that you're gonna be stranded all the time, just that they're old vehicles and they all need love, care and money if you wanna keep them reliable and safe, and more importantly, if you wanna keep them on the road for as long as possible. Someone who just wants to drive and go camping without bringing any tools along should probably buy something else. Now, remember, no matter how small it is, it still is somewhat a RV... Now look at the price of those ! There's many things you could do to a westy for that kind of money ! _________________ 89 manual Vanagon GL Wesfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
|
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's the market -- supply and demand. Prices will hold or go up for usable ones. Replacements unlikely at an affordable cost in the future.
Other options out there but not the same thing.
Danbury in England buys new Bay bus everything parts from Brazil, assembles and customizes per order, sells in serious upper digits. They can't assemble fast enough.
Decades ago ... good condition splitties were gobbled up in the US to Japan and elsewhere. Now, good Bay buses heading back to the UK (over 3000 last year per a friend in the loop), Germany, Australia, etc. ... have you suddenly noticed how the finer Bay specimens have narrowed down quite a bit in the last ten years ?
Next up ... the vanagons.
They will be disappearing faster than you think ... maybe in ten years will be a 'closed' market for most.
Accidents, lack of owner care, personal molestations, parting out for short term profit, exportations, etc. ... all will take their toll. That throw-away attitude.
Like I said ... close new approximations that are affordable, cult-able, functional, karmetic, etc. not on the horizon ... at least not for those on a budget.
Treat your vanagon like it's the last one you'll ever see or have.
An old timer once told me years ago, he was astounded at how many good condition vanagon bodies he saw out in the auto junk yards.
In short ... the vanagon will head the same direction as the splitties/bays and likely at an accelerated rated.
A local junk yard told me two years ago they crush about 15-20 vanagons per year. That's just one of about 25 yards in my 'hood. Most of the bodies were good or mostly so.
Do the math. They may look plentiful now on the west coast. That'll change fast. Faster than people think ...
I don't recommend one when the average innocent Joe Blow asks me. Think in terms of $5k to $10k chunks when fixing, upgrading, personal touches, etc. Not the five dollar fix like the old days. Pay to play thing.
Some if not many current owners only think about themselves, not the future owners. Buy, molest, drive into ground, try to find another. But then many of these owners are not into Vw's other than for some modicum of function ... they'd be perfectly happy with another affordable conversion brand.
Saving grace ... a lot of current fine specimen owners will kick off in 10-15 years ... leave behind a few. Also, the younger generations may not be into them like the older generations were which could ease the demand heat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mmartinphd Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012 Posts: 42 Location: Newnan, GA
|
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I paid 12,500 for an 87 Westy, automatic. It only had about 130K on it and is in beautiful shape. I've done some work (dropped and resealed gas tank, replaced some stuff, etc.). It had detailed maintenance records (with receipts) dating back years, which helped me justify.
I bought it in April and we have camped in it every month at least once since. We are absolutely loving it. Had it inspected by a mechanic after I brought it home and the mechanic said, "we can't find a thing wrong with it..."
Very happy. _________________ ------------------------------
1987 Westy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wemfam Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2012 Posts: 137 Location: Central Illinois
|
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here in central Illinois I bought a 84 Westy with 90K on it's rebuilt engine in very nice shape for 4000 bucks. I couldn't get the money out of my pocket fast enough. found it on Craigslist. I think it has everything to do with what part of the country one lives in. Since I began looking for one some 6 months ago, I have never seen one single Vanagon on the road. Not one. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
reluctantartist Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 1927 Location: Bloomington, IN
|
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am waiting for the usual "never pay more than $1k people to chime in. I see a lot of what is this worth posts and see rediculously low prices quoted. I agree with most of the folks here, the vanagons are going up in price,as they get fewer and fewer. The NADA guide shows prices increasing and same with the classic car guide. Thr guides supposedly use values given at registration. Prices maybe influenced by the early buses that have gone up so much recently ($200k+ at Barret Jackson).o _________________ 1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.
Last edited by reluctantartist on Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nachtfalter Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 139 Location: Surf Beach California
|
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think looking in Southern California where they are a huge part of our culture sure isnt helping. Anyone with a nice one knows it, and anyone with a nice one that doesnt know it, finds out pretty quick by all the "call me if you want to sell it" notes on the windshield everywhere you go. My wife gets one a month at least on her van.
He looked at two today in the Los Angeles area and will most likely just deal withthe prices which will seem cheap next year. I told him, "you dont pay too much for a nice one, you just buy too soon" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dagriztx Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2009 Posts: 78 Location: TX
|
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I looked for a couple of years, read as much as I could. I liked the idea of a subaru swap and looked for vans that already had been converted. Also didn't want a camper, weekender would have been nice but in the end went with a plain GL stationwagon.
It's an '89, clean, low miles w/ 2.2 subaru done by L.Korkin. Came with nice upgrades such as brakes (Audi vented dics front and Brembo drums rear) steel bumpers, nice stereo, A/C that works, nice Michelen tires with Mercedes-Benz style rims and crapy paint. Can't have it all!
Had it checked out by a shop locally, they gave it a clean bill of health with the exception that it needed a brake job. Split that cost w/ sellor.
Flew out to San Diego paid my money and drove it back home, some 1400 miles. Had a blast doing so.
I've done an oil change and entered a local VW show. I drive it on the weekends and enjoy it.
So I paid 12K But have all the receipts + history on the van + all the extras I mentioned above that came with the van.. The shop that checked it for me said they charge 13K for a swap
Yeah I could have gone a different route, done the swap myself and saved some coin and could be enjoying the same thing in about a year or more down the road and in the end not a lot less money.
I do plan on keeping this van for a long, long time. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
|
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gauche1968 wrote: |
For some, bringing back a used van is part of the experience. It should still be possible to find a "drive as you restore" Westy for 5K or less, if you look hard and stay clear of sellers with proud asking prices. |
we went this route with lucy, we paid $2500 10 months and 18,250 miles later she owes us less than $5500
yes i have had some trouble, nothing terminal as yet
on our travels i've seen several other westy's available for a LOT less than samba prices
a good few a similar price to what we paid, and in decent enough condition _________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|