Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Automatic Onboard Fire Extinguisher, every one needs this!
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
joseph928
Samba Member


Joined: September 22, 2011
Posts: 2114
Location: flagstaff az.
joseph928 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Automatic Onboard Fire Extinguisher, every one needs this! Reply with quote

With all the vanagons catching fire. two in the last week that I know of.
Yes, I do know how important it is to replace fuel lines. I decided to install an automatic fire extinguishing system. I know they are over $600.00. I found these on EBay. I got these for around $150.00 with mounts. These came from a top NASCAR Team. It is a firefox FE 36 SFI SPEC 17.1. These are the new Halon substitutes. 16.5 inches long by 5.25 inches wide. They weight 15lbs 13 oz. The charge is 6lbs 2oz. and will cover over 100 sq ft. These were made 9 years ago, tested 2 years ago and most NHRA teams are using these. They are powered by nitrogen, maximum pressure 1,000, charge pressure 200. I do not know why every van in the country does not have these installed. What is you van worth? Even at retail these are a good deal and at EBay prices they are a steal! There are not alot of them out there but teams do replace them regularly. This is an "install and forget about it" system. It goes off automatically, even if you are not in the van. I bought more than one of these. I will have to see what I want to do with the extras.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is a Mead Telescope ring 5.25 inches. I use this to mount the extinguisher in the engine compartment (from EBay: $12.00).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is a picture of the extinguisher in the engine compartment for size comparison. I am going to mount it in the driver side rear fender well.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is the braided cable and the nozzle installed in the engine compartment. You can just see the nozzle in the top center of the picture.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is a picture of the extinguisher mounted in the fender well with the Mead mounts.
_________________
1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.


Last edited by joseph928 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:02 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
James 93SLC
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
James 93SLC is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've considered a setup like this myself. The price however has been a factor in not doing it. Good to know about these good used units.
_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Phishman068
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 1601
Location: Pittsburgh PA (ish)
Phishman068 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Classifieds Feedback
NZer
Samba Member


Joined: January 17, 2012
Posts: 88
Location: South Western Ohio
NZer is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phishman068 wrote:
How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway?

Being a Halon substitute it looks to be an inert gas instead of the foam type that cover everything.
_________________
A sad looking 88 Westfalia, MT 2.1 with 150k on the clock and several issues!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have built and installed Fire Safe systems in race cars, but never in a van.

Good idea for sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
joseph928
Samba Member


Joined: September 22, 2011
Posts: 2114
Location: flagstaff az.
joseph928 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phishman068 wrote:
How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway?
Blue Bay Bus No! I don't have the wire cover on the nozzle yet in the picture. So that wont be a problem. It detected fire by heat, and no it does not get to hot to set it off on it's own. Remember they use these in nascar and NHRA. I think it takes about 180* to set it off. It does not use yellow powder, it's a halon substitute, so it wont even hurt you like halon will! It will not hurt your electronics either and nothing to clean up after you use it. I saw 4 more of these by different manufactures today , $200 to $350 on ebay today so you all have no excuse to not have one. Come on no more burnt up vans.The ones I got are still the best deal I seen yet! And the big ones cover so much room they will put anything out, even the 2 pounders will do a good job. Very Happy
_________________
1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12214
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

while I know nothing is failsafe and 100% guaranteed.
wouldn't it be better to put the same attention and $costs$ into the fuel system of the van to prevent the fire in the 1st place?
sure these make sense in race cars, as they're pushed to the extremes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jon_slider
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
Jon_slider is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for sharing your idea and congrats on taking action

however, you are only protecting the engine

the most recent fire thread was an electrical fire in the dash..

if might be good to have access to that fire extinguisher without having to open the hatch and deck lid. For example, put the extinguisher itself under the back seat, so you can use some sort of quick release plumbing to your engine fire suppresion system

still, great idea to have a fire extinguisher, that works, on board
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JeffRobenolt
Samba Member


Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1509
Location: Wisconsin
JeffRobenolt is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A dash fire could be put out by a regular extinguisher mounted in the van.

You would know right away with the dash, that is if you were in the van.

An engine compartment could burn pretty good before you would notice it.

Jeff
_________________
**For Sale...Modified Subaru Wiring Harnesses**
www.facebook.com/jeffrobenolt
--------------------------------------------------------
[quote="jfats808"]Most, some, few is not all. You can always learn something from everyone , even the fool.[/quote]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
teej
Samba Member


Joined: November 26, 2010
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle
teej is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how simple the installation looks.
_________________
1986+ Wolfsburg Weekender Pop-Top 2.1 WBX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
an86carrera
Samba Member


Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Bradenton, FL
an86carrera is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phishman068 wrote:
How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway?


Someone at work gave me a 10 lb ABC extinguisher for my garage the other day. He also gave me a LED monitor and a kitchen size trash can. I put the extinguisher in the trash can and laid it on the front floor of the Porsche and left for home, on the way the pin must have fallen out and on a fast acceleration from a light the extinguisher slid back into the front of the passenger seat and went off. Wow what a surprise and mess, took two hours to clean up after I got home. Would have been way worse if not in the garbage can that caught maybe half of the white/yellow crap.

So, be careful transporting the damn things too.
_________________
Len
Current Vehicles
'84 Westy '95 2.2 Subaru
'08 Dodge 2500 diesel
'75 914
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
James 93SLC
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
James 93SLC is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
while I know nothing is failsafe and 100% guaranteed.
wouldn't it be better to put the same attention and $costs$ into the fuel system of the van to prevent the fire in the 1st place?
sure these make sense in race cars, as they're pushed to the extremes.


You are missing the point here. This is not advocating that you neglect regular maintenance on the van. This just an extra level of cheap insurance that could keep the van from burning to the ground.

Brand new cars can catch fire too.
_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
peaceful warrior
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2005
Posts: 5248
Location: Taoswest, USA
peaceful warrior is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a nice simple install, it seems.
Mind if I ask you a couple of questions James?
1. You stated that it goes off at 180 degrees, automatically, so I am assuming the sensor is in the nozzle?
If that is the case, did you test for engine compartment temps on a hot day of driving, before deciding to mount where you did?

2. Any idea of cost to recharge, if, and let's hope it never happens, goes off?

3. Install and forget about system? Does that indicate that it will never lose pressure, let's say over a year? I know with standard fire extinguishers, they do lose pressure over time and needed to be recharged.

Only asking as I am curious, and these are some questions that came to mind. Thanks! Wink
_________________
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cygnus
Samba Member


Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 129
Location: Idaho
Cygnus is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking of something along these lines as well - I found this one about a year ago - seems reasonable at $165.00 - We would have to find out what the engine bay temps are driving in stop and go 100F weather though. Apparently this one triggers at 286F.

-Brian

<snip from previous post>
No association but I have queried these guys - looks like something that could be installed in the engine bay.. He said it triggers at 286F - the 90 degree head one is like $165.00 - can't vouch for em yet but looks promising.

http://www.firefightproducts.com/
_________________
'86 Syncro Timbertech Hightop "Cygnus"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
reluctantartist
Samba Member


Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 1891
Location: Bloomington, IN
reluctantartist is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my air-cooled when you park it gets close to that high. I haven't monitored it closely enough to know if it gets to that temperature for sure but when I have stopped after a long run on a hot day, I have seen the engine compartment temperature climb to 250 before I lost interest. Yes, I keep a thermometer in the engine compartment.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wpegden
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2007
Posts: 40

wpegden is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have considered these systems and the problem I have with them is that the driver will have no indication that suppression has taken place.

So you'll be driving along in your vanagon, a fuel leak develops, catches fire, extinguisher puts it out very quickly. But you keep driving! fuel is still leaking (probably faster now) and it reignites. The extinguisher doesn't do you any good the second time around.

What they need is a loud whistle on the extinguisher head.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66729
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, if you maintain your vehicle it should not leak fuel and burn.

Don't assume since you don't smell gas your 30 year old fuel lines are OK.

CHANGE THEM, ALL OF THEM, every 5-6 years.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
peaceful warrior
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2005
Posts: 5248
Location: Taoswest, USA
peaceful warrior is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
You know, if you maintain your vehicle it should not leak fuel and burn.

Don't assume since you don't smell gas your 30 year old fuel lines are OK.

CHANGE THEM, ALL OF THEM, every 5-6 years.


Noted point Glenn, and well taken I think by most. Overkill never hurts for protection of our Precious! Laughing Wink
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Since I do just that, but I am not opposed to a good suppressant system. I have only experience one VW fire in my lifetime and I got it out quickly, thankfully.
_________________
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubbified
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1287
Location: Redmond, WA
dubbified is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With as much as we spend on these gems, and the fact we sleep in these.. I'm with fire suppression. Cheaper than the alternative.

Here are some resources I found online, Anyone know if we have a dedicated thread on this, offering best approaches to fighting fires, best hardware, vendors, and prices?

Found a interesting site RV fire suppression specific..

http://www.rvcruzer.com/firetypes.php

Anyone using heat activated nozzles on portable cylinders?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any home brewed systems using Inert gas?

Seeing some of the cable activated systems, what is keeping someone from getting a cable, and bottle mounted in bay, and simply using nozzles and steel tubing? Course, I think the heat activated nozzles are the best option..

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Q4GL5FRwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I am a proponent of the clean agent gas systems vs the AFF systems, I'd prefer something a little easier to cleanup based on the reviews once these systems go off, picture as reference.. But, I'm with real world experience, which ones work best? I've never had to fight a engine fire, cleanup means nothing compared to controlling the fire.

I like the remote mounting idea if possible, but would also entertain one of these..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




http://www.rvcoolingunit.net/servlet/the-Halon-Fire-Fight1-Extinguishers*****/Categories

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Another resource page, http://www.firefightproducts.com/Fire_Fight_Supplemental_Hal.html


I would love to see more about what Van owners have done specifically listing pictures, and LINKS on the net for the hardware they purchased.

I think my cross country trip requires a fire suppression system before I leave in the next week. Jeez.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Homercules
Samba Member


Joined: June 04, 2010
Posts: 138
Location: Calgary
Homercules is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wpegden wrote:
I have considered these systems and the problem I have with them is that the driver will have no indication that suppression has taken place.

So you'll be driving along in your vanagon, a fuel leak develops, catches fire, extinguisher puts it out very quickly. But you keep driving! fuel is still leaking (probably faster now) and it reignites. The extinguisher doesn't do you any good the second time around.

What they need is a loud whistle on the extinguisher head.


I don't think that would be a problem. The extinguisher would be very loud as it would completely deplete in one shot, one very loud shot. Besides I would prefer a leak than a leak that is on fire!

I also saw an option for a siren.
_________________
89 Syncro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB