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westfalexia Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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Hi,
I had a goWesty 2.3 engine put in last year by my shop. Something was a little weird from the start - seemed to run hot. After 3 trips to the shop on a tow truck, a starter (and the new one was hard to crank when hot), 2 coolant tanks, oil cooler, and thermostat, it was still smelling like coolant most of the time. Shop could never find the leak.
When the shop did the thermostat they also replaced the fan switch and put a "resistor on the temp gauge so that it would read accurately." It had gotten to the point of the red LED flashing twice just from idling or being in traffic.
And a year later of continued coolant loss and smell, it started getting really hot to the point of boiling over when you idle after long trips. Fan didn't come on. The engine temp was reading just above the LED. It was like the hot coolant wasn't getting to the radiator. Putting on the a/c to force the fan to come on did not help. If you rev the engine a little, the temp would drop a bit momentarily.
I brought it in directly after it boiled over. Shop had told me it was probably the coolant cap. I dropped the van off and a month later they tell me that the head gaskets have failed, but the tabs are melted so Go Westy will not cover anything under warranty. Engine has maybe 5k on it.
So here's the question. Is the shop right to be making me pay out of pocket for this? With the resistor on the gauge it never even registered overheating. The only reason I knew something was wrong was when it started boiling over from the tanks. The shop has still not even acknowledged that anything is wrong with the cooling system, they said it was boiling over from exhaust gasses due to the head gasket.
alex |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.5 head gasket failure question |
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Your thread title mentions the engine, but this sounds like a cooling system issue. It sure would've been nice to use an infrared gun on that radiator when the engine was still running. I suspect your rad is full of scale and other detritus which is impacting its ability to shed heat. It's also possible the cooling system was never sufficiently bled. Lots of unknowns. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4715 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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uff taa. what a scenario. seems like you can either suck up the loss and replace the head gaskets or fight in court, which might be the cost of the work by the time all attorneys are paid.
with the resistor added by the garage, it is an easy task to determine if the coolant temp sensor is "now accurate". that is evidence for a mistake that led to engine damage and the garage might just do the right thing an install one at their own cost if you buy it, a compromise. i know you want a free engine and free labor but that will likely have to be fought in court to get. gaskets might be all you need too so maybe they'll cover that with evidence.
but really, the bottom line is the engine temps should have been shot with an IR gun right away to suspicious confirm metering. and for the future, i would absolutely replace the radiator with a new engine. that should just be a given on ANY rebuild with these vans due to their age and cooling system layout with the rad 12 feet away from the water pump. a FLIR Infrared Camera can be had for $200 and you can literally see what the rad is doing and if the bottom channels are blocked. especially important because the rad fan sensor is mounted there.
also, you can chemically confirm the presence of exhaust gas in the cooling system with a kit and chemical solution. it's pretty inexpensive. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Steve Arndt Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 1777 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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Is your radiator plugged? It is useful to read the temp in/out and top/bottom of the radiator with an IR thermometer. _________________ Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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From the limited information it sounds like something was wrong from the very start.
The shop may (or may not) have been responsible for the problem but they were the ones who failed to figure it out.
Adding a resistor to bring the temp gauge down was a lame attempt to avoid dealing with the real problem and apparently set you on the path to total failure.
It would be great if the shop owned up to their role in all this and tried to make it right but that may not be the case - which leaves you with only expensive options. |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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You got screwed. The first shop should have SHOWN you that everything was nice and cool before modifying the gauge circuitry. Find another shop to fix the engine. Use an IR gun to test the cooling system and determine why it runs hot. Bad thermostat, clogged radiator, etc... If the IR gun shows hot temps at the gauge sensor and the gauge reads normal or cool, make the first shop pay for Everything.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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If the volume of exhaust gas leaking into the cooland was enough to heat the coolant, it would have overflowed the system long before it got hot enough to melt the tabs. Any small exhaust leak into the coolant would have been easily handled by a normally functioning cooling system.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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Paulbeard Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015 Posts: 2604 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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westfalexia wrote: |
When the shop did the thermostat they also replaced the fan switch and put a "resistor on the temp gauge so that it would read accurately." It had gotten to the point of the red LED flashing twice just from idling or being in traffic.
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that and the smell of coolant…not good at all. Feel free to name and shame your shop, especially if they don't make good on this. The GW motor should have been a slam dunk — it's not like they were rebuilding your old one. Even if the radiator was full of crud, they could have tested that and called it out. _________________ Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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To me, it feels like Go Westy has no horse in this race or responsibility. But the garage who installed it does. I'm not a GW fan for most things, but here I am definitely a fan of theirs.
When you agree to install an internal combustion engine, you understand that it is a device that burns fuel that would destroy it with heat unless it is properly cooled. That is a rather fundamental concept but it is at the center of my point. If they accepted this responsibility, and the engine immediately had overheating problems, then they did not fulfill their responsibility. End of story.
They did not resolve the issue, as clearly the engine overheated enough to melt the devices placed on it to sense exactly the condition of "overheated engine" and voided the warranty.
Whatever else they did with a resistor on the guage, etc, and replacing various components were clearly done to try to help and I believe they meant well. But those efforts - however well meaning - failed to solve the problem and they let you drive off into the sunset (several times, no less) with the completely predictable result that the engine was damaged (head gasket failures are also CAUSED by overheating as well as being a cause of overheating.)
So, I'm feeling that something was clearly amiss immediately after their (presumably warranted) installation and it was not resolved before damage occurred. You did your part in bringing it to their attention. They did their part in trying to rectify the situation. But at the end of the day their efforts failed and I feel the resulting damage from repeated overheats as they tried first one fix, then the other, and so on would be their financial responsibility to make good on.
You paid up the wazoo for a pricey engine that was not the problem (or surely they'd have figured that out and said so immediately after the installation) and it should have been a slam dunk easy repower as someone put it. This was not some unknown rebuild, or a used engine, etc. It was a top shelf rebuilt engine by a knowledgable and skilled company that specializes in this exact engine with a long history of success. And they charge for that - deservedly.
Sorry you're going through this. _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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IdahoDoug wrote: |
...When you agree to install an internal combustion engine, you understand that it is a device that burns fuel that would destroy it with heat unless it is properly cooled... |
True enough, this is from the GoWesty warranty:
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IMPORTANT NOTE: Engine failure due to improper installation, overheating, incorrect timing, insufficient oil, contaminated oil, oil additives, outright abuse, etc., will not be honored by warranty. GoWesty strongly recommends replacing your entire cooling system—this engine is not warranted against damage resulting from overheating. Please read this article for more information. |
The article referenced: Cooling System Overhaul: A $3 Hose Takes Out a Fresh GoWesty 2.3 Liter Engine! |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17007 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the engine removed for this one? The first time this one ran hot was the beginning of the end. It's on the shop even if the supplied engine had a defect from new. Sorry. _________________ ☮️ |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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MarkWard wrote: |
Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the engine removed for this one? The first time this one ran hot was the beginning of the end. It's on the shop even if the supplied engine had a defect from new. Sorry. |
I had the same question.
It sounds like there was some outlandish bungling on the part of the shop. (Regardless of what caused the problem, this is almost certain.)
I think it's somewhat more likely that the problem was your cooling system and the install, and not the engine.
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If the volume of exhaust gas leaking into the cooland was enough to heat the coolant, it would have overflowed the system long before it got hot enough to melt the tabs. Any small exhaust leak into the coolant would have been easily handled by a normally functioning cooling system. |
It sounds like the gasket(s) blew because it overheated, and that the overheating was caused by a separate problem.
The fact that the fan wasn't turning on suggests the possibility that coolant wasn't reaching the radiator. (If it were just a sensor / fan problem, it shouldn't have overheated so quickly and dramatically.) Given that there was also a coolant smell, it sounds as though there was a minor leak that allowed air into the system, which prevented the proper movement of coolant and caused the overheating.
This entire situation might very well have been caused by something as simple as a loose hose clamp. |
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T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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The shop was too busy loading the parts cannon to correctly diagnose and analyze the electrical and mechanical systems properly. Sad to hear about this... So many Charlatans masquerading as “Technicians”
I hope that they are reading this. _________________ 1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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davevickery Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2887 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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Sorry for the trouble, that is horrible. There a a few good rsuggestions here but a lot of finger pointing. I think you/we need more info to be certain about anything.
I assume this shop ordered and installed your engine they're not just trouble shooting someone else's install? It seems like this might be on them if you had this problem from the go and they can't show you why the GW engine was at fault.
And maybe more importantly, was your prior engine running and the cooling system functioning normally with the fan coming on in stop and go traffic. Or was this a barn find and you know nothing about the condition of the van?
Everyone always replaces the radiator, and why not considering the money being spent, but I don't think you can point to the radiator for such a severe overheating situation. It might have run a little hot if the radiator was kind of cruddy, but not to the point you describe, especially if it was working fine on your old engine.
We aren't there to hear what the shop is saying. Adding a resistor to a stock engine seems a little strange, but if the temp reading was too high, and they checked it afterwards to make sure they had it calibrated right, then that isn't a red flag. Kind of depends how much you trust this shop. |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7400 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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This not meant as a poke to the OP (they tried to have the smell resolved). It’s just a note from my experience.
I’ve had a van that smelled of antifreeze. First the under seat heater core leaked, then some other part leaked, etc. After a while it just seemed like Vanagons smelled of anti-freeze and that was kind of normal. The 1.9 eventually puked.
If there’s an odor of antifreeze that means something is wrong and needs to be repaired. As the GW article points out, if the cooling system isn’t fixed then the engine is at much greater risk of failing.
The smell of anti freeze is the smell of an engine dying. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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11BC2 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017 Posts: 494 Location: Cool, California
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Gowesty 2.3 head gasket failure question |
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I own a shop, and I have some questions for the OP.
1. Who supplied the engine?
2. Why was the original engine replaced?
3. Is the shop that did the work competent? |
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