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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: Here's a good one! Electrical problems. |
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You'd think this would be simple. 
The patient: 1969 Squareback, all stock.
Sequence of events:
Came in for a spark plug that wouldn't tighten. Wound up that it needed an insert. Put one in, installed plug, put together all the rest of the stuff the customer took apart, and fired it up. Ran like crap.
Generator light on.
Noticed a bubbly DF wire, so bypassed it. No difference.
Customer brought a pile of regulators and generators.
Replaced regulator- No fix
Tested generator with VOM and there was continuity where there shouldn't have been. Replaced gen with one that tested properly.
FIXED!!! Brushes are worn, and my regular supplier is closed. Customer drops off brushes and a NOS injection wiring harness next day.
Install brushes. Test. Works great.
Next day, install FI harness and set things up on the tester and the sniffer. Replace out of spec Temp Sensor 1.
Put it through its paces.
Went into the house as it was 102 degrees outside. Had a cold soda, relaxed in the A/C.
After awhile, went back out into the shop, installed air cleaner and buttoned things up. Installed engine lid. Went to pull car out of shop.
But wait- did I leave the key on? Generator light is glowing bright.
Shit! Key is out of the ignition and on the seat!
Replace regulator with another one.
Started car, and it won't charge.
Pull generator- Fried.
Check another generator and polarize it. Checks/ polarized fine.
No charge.
Replaced regulator again.
No charge
Disconnect all wires between gen and reg. Test for continuity and cross- continuity (to make sure nothing is melted together). All checks good
No charge.
Check continuity of ALL wires in the battery/ charging system.
No charge.
Run the wire bypass test per Bentley on terminal 30 of the fusebox, light switch, ignition.
No problems found, no charge.
Ground regulator body with another aux ground wire.
No charge.
Ground generator to body with jumper wire
No charge
Ground engine to body using jumper cables as a ground strap.
No charge.
Replace regulator yet again
No charge
Run polarizing procedure on generator. Runs fine. Reinstall
No charge
Double test continuity of all wires and reinstall.
No charge.
Anyone have any farking ideas here? 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sheesh, I'd be shitting bullets by now!
Battery poles reversed? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Sheesh, I'd be shitting bullets by now!
Battery poles reversed? |
It worked great till it didn't. No switching of poles. They are correct.
Actually, I just solved it. The commutator was dirty. I've never seen a generator polarize but then fail to charge before, but by Jove, this one did!  Ran like a champ powered only by a two amp charger, too.
So then, I'm congratulating myself for being a complete dumbfark and missing this, and decided to see how the lights affect things.
Pull light switch on, engine instantly kills and will not restart. Crankitty crank crank crank but no fire. Fuel pump runs. All fuses are good. Everything else is working. 
So I go back to the engine to check things over, just happy as a clam.
I guess that the black wire to the coil picked the exact nanosecond that I turned on the lights to fall off the coil. Loose connector.
I guess tomorrow I'll put the dash back together and see about replacing the damn broken fusebox... and no, I didn't break it. Wondered why it was hanging by one screw...
I swear the owner of this heap is out to get me. Yeah, you know who you are *cough*MikeFisher*cough*. 
So today's lesson is... always clean the commutator, no matter what.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Woreign
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 2841
Location: Crestview FL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Mike's always saying how "Tram fixed this" or "Tram fixed that" or "Tram always does it this way"... Maybe you're being too nice to him? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Woreign wrote: |
| Mike's always saying how "Tram fixed this" or "Tram fixed that" or "Tram always does it this way"... Maybe you're being too nice to him? |
Mike's OK. His car, I want to light on fire.
_________________
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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sounds like you've had fun with it so far. (hinting the sarcazm?)
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It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
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69 Notchback
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 714
Location: Bailey Co
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Tram, excuse my ignorance but what is a commutator? Now that my car is running so well I want to make sure to keep the one I have clean! |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Woreign wrote: |
| Mike's always saying how "Tram fixed this" or "Tram fixed that" or "Tram always does it this way"... Maybe you're being too nice to him? |
Mike's OK. His car, I want to light on fire. |
I've got a GM truck that's been doing the same damn thing (except it's in the FI system). Right now I've the entire injection harness out of it looking for a break or melted spot, or bad factory crimp. I swear this thing must have 100 wires to it (makes you think the 22 or 24 wires D-jet uses should be easier), but it's probably on 50.  All of the sensors, ecu, and other assorted bits check out (spent a day on that alone), so it's in the harness somwhere. I think this truck is out to get me, as I've never seen this before on one.
But whenever I work on the generator, I always clean up the comutator. It only takes a few extra minutes, but it does make a difference. The last "bad" generator I worked on, it did work until it warmed up, then it started to loose voltage. Turns out the field coils were falling apart inside. I replaced them with a set from a bug, then polished the comutator (also cleaned out the gaps), installed a new set of bearings, and re-polarized it. It's been fine since. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| 69 Notchback wrote: |
| Tram, excuse my ignorance but what is a commutator? Now that my car is running so well I want to make sure to keep the one I have clean! |
Leo, it's the part the brushes ride on. They get dirty and worn from the carbon of the brushes. There's not a lot you can do about it either, until you have a problem.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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69 Notchback
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 714
Location: Bailey Co
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks Bob, I'm sure my Commutator could use a good cleaning. I will have to talk to Ellen about that when I get home! |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22448
Location: Escondido CA
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Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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uh bobnotch, what do you mean "polerizing", i have heard the term, but dont know how that is done.
_________________
It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
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krusher
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7652
Location: europe
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Sqrbckguy38 wrote: |
| uh bobnotch, what do you mean "polerizing", i have heard the term, but dont know how that is done. |
uh,It on takes 2 secs to search the forums, but you also have to spell it right
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200
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(06:31:07) RoachGhia: "i drink dick way too fast" |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| notchboy wrote: |
| If it were a notchback, you wouldnt of had those problems. |
Really. Who knew that Squarebacks were built by Jensen?
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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This thing must've run you through a lot of good liquor; in 6 years on this board I've yet to ever see you post a question
note to self: never work on Mike's car
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71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22448
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| notchboy wrote: |
| If it were a notchback, you wouldnt of had those problems. |
Really. Who knew that Squarebacks were built by Jensen? |
Is that the same as lucas 
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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peaceful warrior
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005
Posts: 5274
Location: Taoswest, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Tram, I have a good used Fuse block you can have for a good price.
_________________
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17968
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have a good 12 fuse block to bring Tram.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| I have a good 12 fuse block to bring Tram. |
Good. Whip it on over sometime. Thought I had another one but I don't. If it has fasteners, that's even better.
Don't forget- it's the early 12 with no plug in relays.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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well when im doing this from my phone, i cant quiet search as easy so forgive me for just asking.
_________________
It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
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