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SpudlyHotPotato
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: New Propex HS2211 |
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OK so moderators can throw this post in the dump if I'm missing it, but I noticed on Karl's web site and also in his Samba ad that there's a new Propex available. I tried the Search and can't find any threads on it yet!
His description says that it can be mounted on the exterior of the van under the floor. I'm hoping people will install this and post pics and that Karl will give me a cool description of how this all works. I want the full on features and benefits ad like 1950's style! This is my invitation. How long has this been out, and what new places might this fit in? I'm all about losing less interior space and staying warm!  |
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like a great option when mounted outside the van, first advantage I see is safety knowing propane lines can be all mounted outside the van, you save cabinet space, no propane lines inside, probably less noise inside, what is not to like? maybe exposure to road debris, rocks, etc...
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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SpudlyHotPotato
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Right, and from the looks of it, it looks like it wouldn't stick out any lower than the already-existing propane tank. I like the idea of not losing all that space under the rear seat. I also wonder if there's less cabinetry dis-assembly required for an exterior-mount.
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Rebuilt 2.1 in a 1985 manual Camper
"Those things are over kill and I want a set" - Jedi
"All my work explores the human desire or obsession for utopias, and the structure of all my works is the search for utopias lost and rediscovered." - Marguerite Young
www.bewilderknits.com |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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It is not a pretty blue......
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Californio
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 1306
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Two other advantages: noise reduction, and the possibility of multiple venting inside the van (difficult with bench seat mounting.) Disadvantage: you're going to being cutting 3-1/2" holes in your metal to get the ducts in... |
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SpudlyHotPotato
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: |
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I see what you mean about the cutting into the metal. I'd try to go read through the solar panel threads again and hunt for what methods people may have used to keep water out when they cut into their roof metal for routing in the wires. Being that I'm in AZ, it's so dry here and we rarely have rain. When we do, we're not dunking the undercarriage of the van in water.
I wonder if the propex metal box itself would rust or if it's made out of something stainless? It could always be sprayed with Rustoleum, in a color that virtually matches the van. Not sure what's involved in powdercoating. It might not be necessary if it's invisible under the van.
It'd be cool to see a video and hear what the Propex sounds like with a current set up and then comparatively have another video with the Propex on while mounted outside the van. Virtually silent heat seems almost sci-fi.
_________________
Rebuilt 2.1 in a 1985 manual Camper
"Those things are over kill and I want a set" - Jedi
"All my work explores the human desire or obsession for utopias, and the structure of all my works is the search for utopias lost and rediscovered." - Marguerite Young
www.bewilderknits.com |
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gl98115
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011
Posts: 263
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| SpudlyHotPotato wrote: |
| Virtually silent heat seems almost sci-fi. |
Most of the sound from the Propex propagates through the ductwork, so you would have to have some sort of muffler on the inlet and exit to silence it.
The HS 2000 is marketed by the importer as Very Quiet, which it is not. It wakes me up every time it kicks on and I'm not a light sleeper. 'Even more quiet than the HS2000' may not be very quiet.
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'87 faux-Syncro Westy w/ 2.3l GoWesty WBX |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| gl98115 wrote: |
| SpudlyHotPotato wrote: |
| Virtually silent heat seems almost sci-fi. |
Most of the sound from the Propex propagates through the ductwork, so you would have to have some sort of muffler on the inlet and exit to silence it.
The HS 2000 is marketed by the importer as Very Quiet, which it is not. It wakes me up every time it kicks on and I'm not a light sleeper. 'Even more quiet than the HS2000' may not be very quiet. |
I'll start by answering questions etc. in reverse order.
'gl98115', everyone has a different level of noise that interferes with sleep. I, for instance, sleep soundly through much higher levels of sound. I have tested the sound level (free air) of latest version of the HS2000 using an accurate decibel meter. At approximately 12" away from the heater, it produces 65 decibels, equivalent to a 1500-watt hand-help hair dryer on medium setting (also tested at the same time). However, this doesn't give an accurate idea of the real sound level, given that the heater will be under the seat or in another enclosed space, and that the exhaust/intake pipes are where most of the noise comes from. I'm not sure which vintage HS2000 you are referring to, but the models built from February 2010 on have a ramping effect to the fan - it starts out slowly and ramps up, and back down during the end of the cool-down cycle. Here are a couple short videos Propex UK made of this version HS2000 mounted in a test cabinet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQTwFUoGSVc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1GAWH6Vduk
I tested the HS2211 in the same manner as the HS2000 - on the bench, free air - it's decibel readings were 10 lower near the heater unit (55) although the exhaust/intake level is still the same. There are intake mufflers available through other sources, for those ultra-sensitive sleepers. With the HS2211 mounted externally, I doubt you will see more than 5 decibels over ambient. |
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dubbified
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1406
Location: Redmond, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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I wish these guys would add a water heating coil!! I dont wanna buy a separate unit to do the same thing..but.. havin that under the van is the chit!
I JUST installed mine under the bench, so would have bought this one!!!!!
Hope they make a unit which will do both heat water, and air.. seems so simple!
Last edited by dubbified on Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SpudlyHotPotato wrote: |
I see what you mean about the cutting into the metal. I'd try to go read through the solar panel threads again and hunt for what methods people may have used to keep water out when they cut into their roof metal for routing in the wires. Being that I'm in AZ, it's so dry here and we rarely have rain. When we do, we're not dunking the undercarriage of the van in water.
I wonder if the propex metal box itself would rust or if it's made out of something stainless? It could always be sprayed with Rustoleum, in a color that virtually matches the van. Not sure what's involved in powdercoating. It might not be necessary if it's invisible under the van.
It'd be cool to see a video and hear what the Propex sounds like with a current set up and then comparatively have another video with the Propex on while mounted outside the van. Virtually silent heat seems almost sci-fi. |
Holes of 3 - 4" through the floor for ducting is a reasonable estimate. In the next reply I will paste photos of what is currently available. I found some nice rubber grommets that will require 4" holes. Propex has supplied my with a set of through-floor connector sleeves that are meant to solve multiple things at once: protect the ducting from the metal floor, connect the 'outside' or below-floor ducting, to the 'inside' or above-floor ducting, and additionally a secure connection for thermal wrap that they can also supply.
The only totally silent heaters are radiant - the downside is that radiant heaters don't circulate air very well, so although excellent at directing heat to one spot, they do poorly at heating an entire van without having a fan to move air around. |
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mockup of the HS2211 under the van
Alternate location tucked behind the passenger seat, a cover could be made here and you would barely miss the space.
Mounted vertically under the rear bench saves a bit of floor space over the HS2000, and the inlet/exhaust pipes would go down through the floor. The mounting brackets can be placed on any of the four sides, and also placed to reverse the configuration from this photo.
APK ducting with optional insulating sleeve, blue sleeves that could be inserted through the floor holes for protection and as an easy connection for both ducting and insulating cover.
The HS2211 enclosure is constructed of galvanized steel. For even better protection it could be painted with a anti-corrosive paint or other product. The case barely gets warm to the touch.
Last edited by westyventures on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jackbombay wrote: |
| How many BTU does the HS2211 put out? |
Output is the same 1.9kw as the HS2000. |
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Steelhead
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1791
Location: Kentfield, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I had no idea a weather-proof box was in the works. Maybe time for me to start designing a clamshell mount adapter and forgo the ammo can approach...
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper) |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| westyventures wrote: |
| I tested the HS2211 in the same manner as the HS2000 - on the bench, free air - it's decibel readings were 10 lower near the heater unit (55) although the exhaust/intake level is still the same. |
So it is half as loud. (10db is half vs 3db which is a half power point, db is a log scale....)
Mounted outside, it would be even quieter in the van.
Since the exhaust is outside along with the intake, again, mounting outside, it would be quieter.
Now I am a bit confused about the outlet noise level thought.
I like this idea, I was considering making a box for one, now it is done for me. This also makes running the propane line easier, I think. One way or another you have to put big holes in (usually.) I just wonder if there aren't more creative spots to put the heater. In my case, I can see space issues under the van between the propane tank, foot wash water tank, and second AC condenser coils.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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1621
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2006
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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What about over the transmission? Lot's of unused space up there.
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'85 Westy |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 1621 wrote: |
| What about over the transmission? Lot's of unused space up there. |
I have yet to decide where I want the outlets to terminate.
An idea is to put the outlets at the bottoms of the front seat pedestals and the heater in the clam shell for the spare tire. The spare tire in a rack at the back.
If under the rear seat still like above the transmission then the outlet hose would travel under the rear seat.
My application is a Multivan and I always have the jump seat in behind the driver and other always out. I could get an early style jump seat and stick it in the box under the seat (and just use an HS2000.)
In other words, I have not decided on a really neat place for my application.
Just some ideas....
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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simonslp
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2007
Posts: 138
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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I love my propex's location
but that outside setup   is looking great too. And the sound of silence sounds nice!
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91 syncro westy w/ 08 suby ej25
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mariusstrom
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Late to the game, but drooling over this.
I wonder if mounting in the clamshell would work, and ducting up through the battery box venting into the 4'x4' floor space from the corner of the starting battery box. (the driver's side has the table mount on the corner I'm thinking of)
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