How to sleep 4 with a tintop Vanagon for $500

[IdahoDoug]

When I sold my hardtop Syncro, I'd been scheming to set it up to sleep 4 and use the 4WD system to access the back country. That project over, I needed to set up one of our LandCruisers to sleep 4 and fulfill the same function. Since many here expressed interest in being able to sleep a family of 4 in their tintop Vanagons, I thought I'd copy and paste my completed project. It would also work perfectly on a Vanagon and adds a rooftop sleeping pod for about $500 and only a couple hours easy work. As follows:

OK, project done and close to budget. I found the Deluxe Tent Cot which I wanted in Cabela's bargain cave for $250. The double is perfect for this - bed is over 4 feet wide but be advised you romantics it is kinda two separate beds due to a stout center frame member that makes a gentle ridge down the center. Not that it isn't fine on one side and then you retire to your separate sides later if you know what I mean (nudge, nudge, wink wink..). You can comfortably flop anywhere up there, it's just that you'll find you will settle to one or the other side for sleeping.

Then I got a pair of these nice Cabela's self inflating foam sleeping pads at $70 each: (Moderator edit: Direct product URL is preventing the post from appearing, therefore the item name is Cabela's Standard Sleeping Pads; item #IK-580465; www.cabelas.com ). Woah, that's a long link. These fit PERFECTLY and fill the roof tent wall to wall, end to end literally as if they were made for it. Very high quality and really nice sleeping cush though you can sleep in the tent without them as the floor is essentially a really tight flat canvas sling.

Then I paid $55 for a full sheet of 3/4" oak plywood, after wobbling the various choices at Home Depot. Easy to figure out which material is stiffest - grab a corner and wobble it up and down until you find its resonant frequency (when you are wobbling at the same speed it rebounds). Fastest frequency = stiffest variety they happen to have. Oak won and I couldn't feel a weight difference. Painted it with two layers of whatever outdoor oil based paint I had on hand which happened to be white. Drilled 18 holes in it to accept the U-bolts that hold it to my Thule rack. Each coat of paint took 15 minutes. Drilling took about 4 minutes after 10 minutes of measuring. After you drill, use a Q tip soaked with paint to get paint in each hole so the plywood is sealed protectively. Oh, and I cut off about a foot as it was excess to the length of the tent base - another 10 minutes. Really a simple project.

Got the 9 U-bolts and wingnuts at Fasteners Inc for about $13. Bought a 16 foot ladder at WalMart for $74 and spent 3 minutes drilling out a couple rivets so I can separate it into 2 ladders. Some of you wondered about having two ladders. The reason is that I wanted the kids to be able to get in and out without one crawling over the other. When we are camping, sometimes one will be tired and want to lay down and the other wants to read for a bit, etc. This way the each have their own ladder and make use of the excellent design of this tent's whopping THREE entrances.

So, what's that - $532 including the $140 pads? The $140 pads are usable for our other camping, or for sleeping in the back of the LandCruiser. Or you may already have some. And interestingly, the roof tent is usable by itself on the ground as intended, etc.

We got back last night from 3 nights in its first trip. We went to the Banff, British Columbia area including Lake Louise. Total driving was around 550 miles and I literally could not feel the weight of the stuff on the roof. I was really pleased about that. Estimated weight up there is 53lbs for tent, 8lbs for sleeping pads, 40lbs for plywood, and 15lbs for ladder = 116lbs. Totally undetected. I found that if you open the valves on the sleeping pads, folding the tent will squeeze air out and they can be left up there.

Here's us in Cranbrook, BC where we ate at an amazing German restaurant just out of view:

You can see the thing folds to about 8" high, and that's the ladder behind it across the vehicle. At 8 feet, the ladder is narrower than the 8'6" allowed for everyday trailers. It was surprisingly normal looking - not like you'd think an 8 foot ladder slung across would look. Plus it's about 7 feet off the ground. Doesn't look like much up there, eh?

Here it is set up for camping later that night down a scary remote road east of Radium Hot Springs later that night:

Scary because this is serious Grizzly country and the local advice we got for this stop was spot on. Totally remote, near a creek, lots of brush. And of course we arrived at night and being Canada I had no firearms with me. Felt like there were eyes on my back the whole time I was setting things up by headlamp. Without saying anything in front of the kids, we opted for me to sleep up with my son while the girls slept in the LandCruiser behind steel and glass. Tracks everywhere. I'll never camp there again.

Here we are in the Tunnel Mountain campground in Banff National Park:

Here is a closeup of the platform showing how it simply attaches to the Thule cross bar in 4 spots, and you can see a smaller pair of wingnuts that hold the legs onto the platform in 5 spots:

It felt rock steady up there. Absolutely no flexing or movement and I'd feel perfectly safe up there in heavy wind. My intent was for it to be sturdy enough for a full on storm. It is attached to the platform with essentially 10 solid bolts (two per U bolt), and the platform is attached to the Thule with 8 larger bolts (larger U bolts). This would also work with no changes on a Yakima rack as I chose U bolts big enough in case one of my buddies wanted to borrow it. Cabela designed it to be a bombproof shelter for a professional guide and it shows. The floor has a full perimeter steel frame, and when open 2 heavy steel arches hold up the roof/walls. No attempt at lightness here - thick steel tubes are the order of the day.

While on this, a brief description of the tent and what it's like sleeping in it are in order. You go up the ladder, and through an opening almost 3 feet wide, so easy to lean into and roll onto the floor. You can use the stout tent structure to hold onto getting in and out, so not like entering a flimsy fabric tent - feels safe. It's tall enough to sit in a slightly hunched position, which makes it comfortable enough for changing clothing, reading while propped up by pillows, digging through a backpack, etc. But versus a true rooftop tent, there is no excess height here. It is roomy enough to encourage hanging out in, to have some gear with you, etc. On my side I had two full size pillows, a hardcover book, headlamp, large bear spray, sweatshirt for morning cold, large combo CamelBak/gear pack, reading glasses and spare socks. My son had less gear. Never had stuff under or bothering me. We were swarmed with mosquitos every night, and the fine screens kept them all out. The zipper pulls glow in the dark. Huge screened doors on the sides, and a huge window in each end for ventilation and the entire tent is drum tight even with just the screens. Not like some tents where they're only tight when the solid fabric door is zipped and I think this is due to the steel floor perimeter frame. We got rained on one night, and not a drop. A neat benefit is when you arrive at the top of the ladder, you can take off shoes and socks and lay them on the platform under the tent where they remain sheltered from rain. You could put anything there like a shotgun, a big flashlight, or anything you want to be able to just unzip and reach down for - yet keep it dry. Getting out of the tent is drama free as the opening is huge and you can easily see the ladder, get a foothold and the strong wiggle free steel frame gives a sure handhold while doing this. If you look closely in the photos you'll see I stuck an LED light on each C pillar to light the ladder at night as an experiment. You reach down at night and slap it to turn it on, then the ladder is illuminated for safety. Slap it off on the way down. Worked great.

So, what I did was Ubolt a leg to the platform such that they hold the tent up there for driving. When open, all 4 legs are U bolted. The front leg is #1, next #2, #3 and the rear leg #4. To collapse it, I remove the U bolts from legs 1, 3, and 4. Fold up the front end, and the rear end (tent folds in thirds onto itself) and now the tent is standing on legs 2 and 3. With 2 anchored, push the tent forward and the #2 leg collapses down to the plywood. Then swivel the #3 leg under and the tent is flat on the plywood, but still bolted on. A piece of rope over the tent squishes it down further, and prevents the wind sucking it open. Thought I'd need to worry about flapping canvas, but there is simply nothing to flap - it's all folded and presents only the structurally tight tent bottom to the wind. Literally toss the ladder in the now huge empty space at the rear of the platform, tie it down, and drive off. By the last night, I timed myself at 34 minutes from engine shutoff to a vehicle waiting for 4 people to lay down. That included pulling all the gear out, folding the jump seats, preparing the two beds in the LandCruiser, putting up the thermal panels in all windows, opening the roof tent, and putting everyone's duffel on their waiting bed. I did it alone so I knew the time for one person to accomplish, and I got the vehicle interior set up so the girls could have total privacy in it while I worked outside on the roof tent, etc. Interestingly, I carried a toilet along and it fit perfectly behind the third row underway. I wanted it along as camping in some wilderness areas requires a sanitary system.

So, the project worked out way better than I had dreamed and I thought the Vanagon community would also benefit.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I can get the plywood up myself just by laying it there and sliding into position. 5 minutes later its ready for the tent. It's a little awkward but I can also get the tent up there by myself. Slide it into position, put the two U bolts on the #2 leg and 15 minutes of total time I'm ready to drive off. I use a heavy freezer bag to keep track of the U-bolts both on the trip and when the kit is in the garage. Carry a couple spare wingnuts - easy to drop while securing the tent at night.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[IdahoDoug]

Weird. I put a huge post here and it's just blank. I can edit it and the text and photos are there.

DougM
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[kamzcab86]

[IdahoDoug]

Thank you so much! This "budget rooftop tent" project really turned out to be simple, cheap, and high quality so I thought it might be useful to see for other tintop Vanagon folks with growing families, or friends.

Rgds,

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Syncroincity]

Nice write-up Doug, thanks for posting. I'd keep the sleep-walkers inside the van...
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[nemobuscaptain]

I wouldn't want to sleep in that tent in bear country either. A bear could easily climb up there. I've seen them climb ladders to hunting stands.
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[veloandy]

Awesome write-up, Doug! Thanks!

It seems like most of the setup/teardown time comes from U-bolting legs #1, #3, and #4. Have you tried climbing in/out with only leg #2 bolted down? It seems like this wouldn't feel sketchier than having it set up on the ground, not bolted down at all...although I could see it being a problem if you were hit with gale force winds when no one was inside the tent weighing it down, or if transitioning to the ladder puts a lot of torque on the tent frame.

Without having to mess w/U-bolts, it seems like the setup time could approach the time it takes to pop/lower a westy top.

Also, it looks like you have three cross-bars on your roof rack...have you found a way to figure out max static loads on roof racks? Everything I've found is based on dynamic loads (which are way more than static loads, and therefore the ratings are much lower than a loaded roof top tent).

Thanks again for taking the time to build this, document it, and share it with everyone!

-Andy

[IdahoDoug]

Actually, I use wingnuts on the U bolts so it's not too much time bolting the legs down. But it is fumbly and easy to drop them, etc. Good question - I bet using just leg 2 would indeed be quite stable as you say.

On cross bars - I am only using 2 Thule bars. I nearly bought a third but thought I'd do this and see if it felt stable, which it does. Very solid and I agree with you that the ratings are for dynamic loading underway which is much more force. We merely go up there and lay down so as you suspect the single pair of cross bars seems up to the load.

Informationally, we've used this exact pair of bars to drive 4000 miles with two bikes, 4 275-16 tires, a large bike trailer, and a heavily loaded Sears roof box. As you say, they are conservatively rated for wind, to remain in place in accidents with their load, etc. So easily up to the load. Which now that you mention it is some 400lbs with me and my son and the tent and platform - wow!

DougM
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[SCM]

[nemobuscaptain]

Paranoia is a silly word. Respect might be correct.

Yeah, I've seen the damage they did around my old house in Michigan, even some smaller one. Cabins were destroyed regularly.

And another word that comes to mind is omnivore. Yeah, I know, all food outside in a bear bag. I've just never figured out how to get that fresh meat smell off of me or my kids. Otherwise, you are just praying to something that they bear isn't THAT hungry.
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[zeekiel]

sweet


which Radium springs is that, ha. is the one in Colorado by any chance? I was there last week.
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[IdahoDoug]

I'm respectful of the danger a bear can represent. I have had a lot of outdoor experience and have had many bear encounters, two of which were actually dangerous situations that lasted several minutes. There is really nothing you can do to be completely safe in their roaming areas, but being up high off the ground and using good bear safe practices makes sense for me. Particularly since I am responsible for the safety of my wife and kids.

By the way, I meant to mention that Thule makes crossbars long enough that this tent can be mounted sideways. For the tintop Vanagon, this gives rise to the possibility that two of them would fit and allow rooftop sleeping for a whopping 4 people. So it could seat 6 people for driving, and sleep 6 people with minimal prep (assumes two in the Z bed). Sounds crazy I know, but there are probably folks who'd actually do it!!

DougM
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[djkeev]

I haven't any need for this but your concept almost has me wanting a tin top!

Excellent concept and execution!

It seems So much simpler than the folding floor units with ladders holding up the platform....... Not to mention cheaper!

Dave
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[Syncronicity]

Thanks Doug. Nice write up. May have to give that some consideration if we have company on a trip.
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[Alex Proulx]

Nice set-up. I lived in Australia for 2 years (06-08 ) and had an 80 series as well (1993), 4.5 litres petrol engine with an LPG conversion. I had a full size roof rack, my double swag fit nicely up there, away from the snakes and crocs. To climb on top I would keep the rear sliding window open, step on the tire, then on the window sill, then I was high enough to sit in the swag. What a fantastic camping/fishing machine for the beach/outback, I miss it so much, looking at yours brings all kind of memories. The westy is nice but driving the Cruiser in the outback or on endless deserted beaches with beer in hand was a different kind of adventure.
Alex
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[IdahoDoug]

One of my bucket list items is to spend at least a month wandering the outback in a self supporting capable 4WD. I've done it in American deserts as long as 5 days on a few trips, and it's positively addictive. After you've been in that routine for a few days you start thinking crazy thoughts like "man, I should sell off everything, lease the house for a year, and STAY out here..." you know?

Yeah, this is going to be cool on the Vanagon. Since it has the same traditional roof gutters as the Cruisers, it is the same routine to toss it up there. I would estimate that this thing has nearly twice the volume of a Westy's upper sleeping area and better ventilation as well as some privacy for another couple. It would be interesting to have someone do a quick and dirty measurement for me to compare volume.
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[tam_shops]

Fun and not a bad idea for a tin top, I was expecting a hammock or two. My younger son often sleeps on the Vanagon floor, which is hard in bear country b/c the cooler and food bags take up so much space, but it's still doable.



Thank you, the bear comment had me a bit worried and confused given my boys sleep in the Vanagon pop top, not seeing the difference between that and this car tent. Then, there are all the years we slept in an actual tent. Even more glad that is done. That being said, I've never seen a bear tear a tent apart, but that could be luck as I'm sure there are people dumb (or inexperienced) enough to put food in a tent!

tam

[JudoJeff]

Loved your idea, it'd be great combined with a tintop weekender setup.

I was in a tree stand when a bear started to climb the ladder. I couldn't shoot him because of the large metal floor, and all I had was a rifle. So I started to climb upwards, then remembered I'm tethered to the tree with a safety harness.... Fortunately I yelled at the bear and he changed his mind. Now I carry my 1911A .45 pistol with me.

I've also had a bear scratch his back against the ladder, and shake the whole tree.....
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[joetiger]

As I sit at work daydreaming about all of the things I want to do with my new tin top Syncro then searching Samba archives for ideas, Photobucket ruins the experience once again.
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[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, let me refresh those photos so you can see it. We were actually in it a few weeks ago in British Columbia.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader