Life Expectancy of New (not rebuilt) Starter?

[DAIZEE]

So sometime prior to August 2010 during the initial conversion by the previous owner, he put in a new (not rebuilt) starter (documented but no date given). So in real time that's approx 2 years to 2.5 years.

To me that is just NOT a life expectancy. I've been driving 51 years and I've never replaced a starter on a new or used car. Contributing factors could be that the first 2 motors were bad motors, incorrect cooling system and no Cold Start Cable was connected until near the 2nd engine's demise. CSC has been in this professionally done 3rd engine from the get got of me having the CSC. Looks like I'll have to get the starter rebuilt as need 2 people to tap and man the cockpit. Happening even after replacing ignition.

So what's the average life expectany of a diesel starter? I've emailed the original converter to ask if there is any chance the starter is still under warranty but I would think that his selling me the van voided any warranty. Nelson says warranty usually 2 years and life expectancy 6 or 7 years. Is there a life expectancy for a diesel Vanagon? I feel pretty strongly that 2 years is too short a time or why would a warranty be good for 2 years? ggggrrrrr

Input, info would be greatly appreciated.
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[danfromsyr]

the insides are at times damaged by heat/prolonged cranking.

your starter's life was quite likely shortened drasticly by repeated dead batteries and excessive cranking of run out of fuel occurances.

but why do you say it's dead?


sorry to hear, but they can die early.. and they can live ~10years..
I tend to change them with my engines, and that's often too soon..
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[Ahwahnee]

It depends...

One thing that it may depend on is whether this new starter was a Bosch product or of some other origin. I have never purchased a new starter (so I do not know what is typically on offer) though the one that came on my 84 van lasted 20 years.

In the US several auto parts chains sell rebuilt units with a lifetime guarantee. I don't know if chains north of the big border have similar deals but the lifetime guarantee from a coast to coast chain makes it pretty certain that I have bought my last starter.

The one I got was a rebuilt Bosch which I realize is not the same as a Bosch rebuild, nevertheless, so far so good.

Apart from your question -- you are saying that the starter will work if it is tapped on (or maybe a hard smack)? To me that is not necessarily cause for replacing the starter -- there are several other things that can cause this.

[DAIZEE]

Like what other things could it be? It works when I'm at the front and Nelson's at the back tapping. The 2 times I ran out of diesel I did not overcrank. But in the first year with all the mega problems, yes, sure I overcranked. I don't know the brand of "new" starter put in 2 years ago, . Battery replaced, CSC added, 3rd engine (professionally done 1 year ago now), just replaced ignition, learning not to push accelerator first. I don't know, so I ask. Nelson is sure it's the starter (no $$ in it for him, I just have to pay for the rebuild).
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Ahwahnee]

I've never had a diesel so I do not know how their starters differ, but on my gas/starter I improved its balkiness by disassembling, cleaning and re-lubing the solenoid.

[DAIZEE]

That's good to know. Nelson says its sticking and perhaps a good cleaning is the answer. Can you visibly see the 'dirt'? My concern with that is taking up Nelson's working time (which I don't pay for due to the work I do for him). I'd hate to have him go thru the work and then have the same problems. I'll talk to him tomorrow and get his opinion.

I'm just so tired of being stranded and I want to be confident my van will start .

Forgot to mention. Yesterday when I took the ignition out I found that the large allen bolt was very loose. I made sure the little screw in the ignition was real tight and when I put the allen bolt back in, I made sure it was in good and tight. Since then I've noticed that the key has more resistance (strong spring) to starting. Shouldn't I have tightened the allen bolt so tight?

Thanks
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[T3 Pilot]

[DAIZEE]

I am fng fuming and very very angry! Most know I spent 2 years of hell with 2 badly installed and bad diesels, lousy cooling system and ##*))*poor quality engine wiring systems. Summer of 2011 saw a breakthru into a happy camper with a test driven diesel engine professionally installed, proper cooling system and mega bucks for proper wiring done by a professional. I thought the nightmares were in the past but g d it they just don't go away.

I have documentation from the original converter that the starter was brand new, not rebuilt and was a special order. Last week I replaced the ignition (yep I did it) and then we were able to diagnose starter problems. So today was the day, out came that "documented brand new, special order starter" which was put in 2.5 years ago. Well first hint was Made in Slovenia, 2nd hint was that it was pretty old looking. Yep the professional who rebuilt it today said it was a minimum of 10 to 15 years old at a minimum!!!!!! Then when Nelson was reinstalling it, the main wiring adaptor was from a kitchen stove. I kept it as a souvenir. He replaced it with an appropriate automotive fitting. I am so fng angry. The ineptness, the misleading, the #)*$&%^)(*$! of a shade tree 'mechanic'. My mechanic wants to report him to the regulatory body for the trades as practicing and selling vehicles that he is not qualified to do.I want to do some primoral screaming in somethone's face.

I know that there are problems with old vehicles BUT when 4 professional Vanagon mechanics refuse to touch the engine, etc... and supported me and my own mechic of 30 years is so angry, what the hell am I supposed to feel. I feel like a dumbdora who had the wool pulled over my head!!!!!!who keeps paying and paying for my misplaced trust and belief in someone. I want to shout his name from the roof tops but as he does business in this community and others, I won't.

Gradually we are rebuilding Scooby and after a few more jobs, fuel tank, accelerator cable and one or two little things Scooby will be like a new van with no rust. My problem and frustration comes from by the time it is all done properly, I won't be able to enjoy it.

Sorry but I just had to release some steam and I am fung angry and I'm not pleasant when I get like this. ggggggggrrrrrrrrGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRR :2gunfire:
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[dhaavers]

Why don't you just stsrt a feedback thread & get it off your chest?
That's what it's there for...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=14

Good therapy...
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[denwood]

I gave up after having my starter back to the Bosch rebuilder 3 times. Installed the gear reduction starter (hitachi) from gowesty. End of story.

Had a similar experience as you, buying a 4500 conversion engine that had to be completely torn down and rebuilt. My vendor rant on the subject remains on my web site.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[windnsea]

290K+ miles on my original starter which is in a '83 1/2 sunroof Vanagon. Never a problem. When I did an engine rebuild or a clutch/throughout bearing, I disassembled the starter and put in new brushes and lubed all moving parts in the starter and solenoid with synthetic grease.

When I upgraded the engine to a 2.2L, I made sure that the battery to starter to alternator wires were okay.

Still going strong, and next October (2013) it will have been my primary vehicle for 30 years!!! My BMW's are for fun, and serve as parts cars for my Vanagon!!

...Maybe you might need a gear reduction starter to compensate for the higher compression ratio of a diesel.

Best of luck!

[ftp2leta]

BOSCH rebuilt = crap.
Sorry but there is no NEW starter unless you go to the dealer... even then.

I have 5 SX25 (auto) and SX401(4 speed) that I have to return, all rebuilt from Worldpac. I loose a lot of time each time figuring why the heck my conversion are hard to start when hot.

Any 83-85 van should have a brand new 0 or 1 gauge (like 86-91) main + wire installed between battery and starter... PERIOD. New or cleaned ground at battery and transmission. Auto should have a second ground installed at starter.... ALL THAT BEFORE you attempt the first start!!! If not, only a few "hot" crank will ground/shorten ant crap BOSCH starter.

Your better off with a used Jetta diesel starter found at any scrap yard then any rebuilt one from Worldpac. Worldpac is everywhere in NA.

NO, BOSCH starter coming from other German part supplier are not rebuilt at the same factory?????

Fact
half of my engine conversion have starting issue.
Many stock 1.9L Vanagon have starting problem, by that I mean CRANKING problem (speed of starter)

I'm just out of a very hard month doing 2 conversion in a row (4 weeks) and both van gave me hell as to starting, an rusty 87 and a nice 84. I lost overall 4-6 days messing around with starter, wires.

I'm now looking for starting option. Yes Karl I'm gonna call you.

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Rallyedude]

I've really had no big issues with bosch rebuilt products. Minimum 6yr life span. I've seen many go for 10yrs. That being said most of my experience is vw+audi fwd+quattro . To original poster, good luck!

[AtlasShrugged]

Many chronic starter problems are the big woven ground strap under the engine/transmission. The mounting lugs, weaves in the strap and surfaces get corroded and the engines, gas or diesel, wont turn over very well.

Go to NAPA and get a big generic woven ground strap and replace the old (probably original 20+ year old) VW part.

Not saying you don't have a bad starter..you may..but replace the strap too.

[PDXWesty]

I have a 6 year old Bosch rebuilt starter as well. Not one single issue with it and it hasn't slowed down one bit. The electrical system does need to be in good condition as Ben states though.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[bluebus86]

original starter in my 1986 vanagon wasserboxer, about 189,000 miles. no problems.

[DAIZEE]

At this time the original converter is the only one who says that he put a new special order starter in Scooby 2 years ago. The company he dealt with for the ordering verfies that one came after 1 month but no paper work, no dates, no knowledge that it was actually installed. For the past 1.5 years I've known what the starter was and it was black and very dusty, so dusty that I could mark an X in the dust to identify where to tap it. As I mentionned the company that it went to yesterday to be rebuilt said it was at least 10 to 15 years old. The original converter has suggested to me that someone must have removed his new starter and replaced it with an elderly body. I will avow that NOBODY has removed any starter before yesterday.

Upon purchase of Scooby, I received NOTHING in the way of documentation, bills, receipts, nothing as to parts used, etc...

The first rebuild yesterday didn't work as a fork in the solenoid had slipped out of position so the starter was rebuilt again this morning. We did get the van started and off I went to do a list a mile long of things as I expected to leave on a 7 to 10 day holiday on Saturday. First stop when went to start up and to move on in my list. NOTHING. Waited several hours for a tow and we got to Nelson's just as he closed. While I was waiting for the tow truck to arrive a fellow named Dan pulled in in his82 A/C Westy and we had a long pleasant chat. He said he has seen my van around the Lakeshore area quite often.

So I have no answers and no soloutions, I thank you all for your ideas and suggestions, I will print this thread out and give it to Nelson for any potential help to him. No holiday for me for sure. Nelson said he checked the ground out and it was fine. Tomorrow is another day. I think a Highlander said "I lay me down to bleed awhile to rise and fight again!"
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[ftp2leta]

[DAIZEE]

All is working now, Scooby back up running! Nice starts.

Yesterday's problem was caused by the solenoid remaining in the open position and when all wires checked, lose mainpower from starter to battery and at the +ve battery as well. Today the fellow folding his laundry next to me started talking to me about my van and Westies in general. Found out there is a wrecker in Toronto area with quite a few Vanagons. Must track it down, forgot the name already but know the general location. Wouldn't I love to find some vans to pick thru!

Will take it on a shake down 2 hr return trip in morning and if all stands up then I'm off to the Pontiac area of PQ to visit some special people.

Thanks all, guess starter issues can be quite common and they'll only get worse as apparently most are made in China now. May pursue the idea of getting a Jetta starter for my Jetta engine..
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[GrindGarage]

I worked in a high volume independent shop for over five years.

Inn general rebuilt starters last as long as the warranty.

I would stay most failures are do to dying battery and poor grounds.

In my open cars I opt to bring alternator s and starters to an independent shop to be rebuilt. Having someone professional that you trust make all the difference.

In my auto Vann I used the Porsche starter and it turns the engine without effort. It is a Bosch Reman and been trouble free for over a year.
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-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com