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whatdoesthisbuttondo?
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2012
Posts: 259
Location: Victoria
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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This was an inspiring thread. Welder purchased, will be referencing this thread a lot for similar repairs; I find new tips every time I re-read it.
Remember the patience and the straight edges...
Thanks!
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Orange 1973 Campervan. Rebuilt 1700cc with dual Solex carbs. Pertronix electronic points on stock distributor. Engine rebuild in progress (fall 2023). |
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Welding questions |
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| Hvost2000 wrote: |
Hi, thanks for the great post. I started recently with my own bus and try to learn how to weld at first. I read a ton of info and everybody has a different opinion on fitting panels. Here are my questions: how tight do you set the panels? What gap do u prefer? Do you cool your welds while welding?
After the initial set of tacks, how do you fill the space between? With another set of tack in the middle and so on or you just fill it one gap at a time? Do you use any heat absorbing plate on the back of the seam? When do you use a panel hammer and a dolly when you are welding? Do you use a grinder or a saw to fit the panels?
That's all for now. Your input is greatly appreciated. |
Hvost2000 first thanks and good luck with your project. When it comes to gaps I like to have around 1/16" plus or minus. Try to get some kind of gap as it allows the wire somewhere to flow and not just sit on top off the panels. Practice with your welder on scrap to get it set to the right heat and wire. Cooling your tacks on sheet metal with a blow gun or wet rag will shrink your panels so I don't like to do it. Thicker metals like 1/8" and larger cooling tends to have less effect on them.
I like to start around 2" between tacks the length of a panel and let it cool to the touch. My next set of tacks I try to go between the first set then repeat trying to maintain a couple inches between tacks at all times. At some point this becomes hard and patients comes in handy. I like to grind the first set of tacks and if I can get behind to hammer and dolly I will this stretches the tack out and flushes both panels. Just 1 or 2 hammers should work. I like to do the above till the tacks are 1/2" to 3/4" of each other by then the panel should hold its shape nicely and I stop the dolly step.
I have heard aluminum tends to pull heat from steel but I don't use any heat absorbing material behind the panel.
I switch between a cut off wheel and red or green snips to trim panels. Fine tunning gaps I will use my air grinder with 50 grit. Sometimes fitting a part multiple times before being happy again patients helps.
I think I covered all your questions if not you know where to find me. |
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Westfabulous wrote: |
| wrstp wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| wrstp wrote: |
| Zeen wrote: |
Fantastic, thanks for taking the time to share.
Come on though, you've left something out: how many hours do you have in this job? |
Be honest ALOT! I stopped counting at 120 a few weeks back. |
thats right boys and girls...so doing loose and fast math, if you are (smart) getting paid at least 50.00 per hour that's over 6K in metal work.
i really hope you are getting paid what you are worth.... |
Be honest again I do this part time and don't get no where near $50 an hour. I don't know to many v-dub owners that can afford $50 an hour me included. No smoke and mirrors here just doing what I have a passion for on vehicles I am addicted to. Lucky for me I have been lucky to work with others that feel the same. |
Just wanted to share another compliment with you. My Dad is in his 70's now, but about 35 years ago he put himself through school to learn bodywork. This was not to be his job, but simply as his weekend hobby, which then became a life long obsession. He has restored about 15 cars since then (ground up, and for his use only), most of which were rotted field finds. He did everything from fabricating his own panels and metal, welding, and bodywork; he personally prepped and painted every one of those cars himself, and he rebuilt all of their engines as well. He is absolutely amazing and has produced a number of show winners. So, the point here: I sent him the link to this thread, and he read it all. His words: "Wow, that guy is awesome". So, you heard it from someone who knows. |
Wow I am lost for words other then Thanks. I hope my kids will speak of me 35 years from now like you do of your dad as he sounds like a great guy. |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have been watching this thread for a while. You are an outstanding metal fabricator and welder. I have learned a great deal from you.
Thank you for taking the time to share.
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| zuggbug wrote: |
I have been watching this thread for a while. You are an outstanding metal fabricator and welder. I have learned a great deal from you.
Thank you for taking the time to share. |
Zuggbug thanks for the kind words and keep a look out for more posts as I had fun doing this one. The next thread should be a splitty but things could change and often do. Again thanks to you and everyone else for the great comments. |
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BusterBrown
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| wrstp wrote: |
| The next thread should be a splitty but things could change and often do. |
Hmm, wonder how we might know when that happens. I for one would sure like to get a front row seat (might inspire me to tackle the needed metal work on my old '66 standard). Maybe a post added to this thread to let us know?
BTW, people pay good money for advanced educational opportunities like this. And we get it for FREE! Aren't we lucky?
Waiting with bated breath for the next adventure in metal-land...
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1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
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sprocket007
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 137
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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haha fsntastic thread!!!
I read your thread on my night shift last night. I also have a project on the go, and this was packed full of info for me!
Thanks for the great pictures and info, you are a great service to our community providing your knowledge and your openess to answer questions!
Cheers,
Wade
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2002 Volvo S60 AWD
2000 Audi TT
1992 G60 Passat syncro,
1990 G60 corrado,
1989 Cabriolet,
1986 Jetta Coupe,
1981 Rabbit LS,
1974 Westfalia,
1970 Campmobile |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| BusterBrown wrote: |
BTW, people pay good money for advanced educational opportunities like this. And we get it for FREE! Aren't we lucky?
... |
not lucky, just cheap vw owners  there is nothing like hands on. i will be posting another nose thread at some point. i think the o/p will tell you, it isnt all just taking pix of the work. i know he has left alot of stuff out too
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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bgoble
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2011
Posts: 34
Location: North AL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: |
| Im almost sad to see this thread ended. Someone bring this guy another bus! |
My bay is next. There will be a minor nose job, new doglegs, front floor patches and quite a bit of dent removal. I am not sure if the op is going to take the time to start another thread or not. I am sure that he will at least post a few pics on his site. |
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| bgoble wrote: |
| CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: |
| Im almost sad to see this thread ended. Someone bring this guy another bus! |
My bay is next. There will be a minor nose job, new doglegs, front floor patches and quite a bit of dent removal. I am not sure if the op is going to take the time to start another thread or not. I am sure that he will at least post a few pics on his site. |
HaHa to funny Bill. Just to let everyone know Bill worked me over all day yesterday to do a thread on his bus and looks like he might get his wish. If anyone has instagram they can see a preview of the donor we cut the nose from and a few shots of Bills awesome shop. Just search for airkooledaddict. |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| >>> This is a sticky if I ever saw one!! |
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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what a thread love the pics and quality of work...makes me realize just how much work mine needs. 
....someday.... 
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2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
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Thrasher22
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2010
Posts: 858
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm doing this exact repair right now and this photo brings to mind something I run into a lot and and unsure about.
It looks like there is a decent amount of light rust on the part of the dog leg you're keeping... are you worried about that rust spreading to the new parts you're welding on? Or is it sufficient to just treat it, weld the new part on and go?
I feel like every time I cut a rotten part off I find myself chasing rust and cutting out MUCH more than I expect to. If I cut out all the surface rust/pitting on my dog leg, I'll have to re-skin the whole thing. |
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Thrasher22 wrote: |
I'm doing this exact repair right now and this photo brings to mind something I run into a lot and and unsure about.
It looks like there is a decent amount of light rust on the part of the dog leg you're keeping... are you worried about that rust spreading to the new parts you're welding on? Or is it sufficient to just treat it, weld the new part on and go?
I feel like every time I cut a rotten part off I find myself chasing rust and cutting out MUCH more than I expect to. If I cut out all the surface rust/pitting on my dog leg, I'll have to re-skin the whole thing. |
If like in Bob's bus it is just light surface rust proper prep and paint will be fine. Media blast is the best but not everyone can go that route so I like to use a nice wire wheel to rusty spots. After the wheel you should be able to tell how bad the rust really is. Don't be afraid to start poking with a screwdriver or other pointed tools to see how crusty the rust is. |
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chook
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2004
Posts: 14
Location: B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: What are you using to cut the spot welds out ? |
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Just curious as to what you've been using to remove the spot welds? Also, is most of your cutout work done with a cutting wheel in a highspeed cutoff tool? Amazing work. I have aftermarket complete doglegs for my 77 but they are WAY better looking than those ones you reworked. Those were awful!
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"Life is Short, Play hard." |
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:26 am Post subject: Re: What are you using to cut the spot welds out ? |
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| chook wrote: |
| Just curious as to what you've been using to remove the spot welds? Also, is most of your cutout work done with a cutting wheel in a highspeed cutoff tool? Amazing work. I have aftermarket complete doglegs for my 77 but they are WAY better looking than those ones you reworked. Those were awful! |
Chook if it will fit I like to use the edge of a 1/16" thick cutoff wheel on a 90 air grinder. If the wheel won't fit I use a rota broach hole saw. Heres a pic of the air tools with the 2nd being a 1/32" thick and my everyday cutting. The 3rd wheel is what I described above for spot welds.
I agree the doglegs where pretty bad and needed some of work. I didn't need the whole leg so chose to do the rework on the cheaper skins to save Bob a little money. |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4098
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hi wrstp, Very nice.
Quick question. What type of surface prep are you using for surface rust on panels that are subsequently covered up? Ospho?
Thanks.
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
Hi wrstp, Very nice.
Quick question. What type of surface prep are you using for surface rust on panels that are subsequently covered up? Ospho?
Thanks. |
I'm not partial to anything in particular and if the customer provides a certain paint I am more then happy to use it. I will use Sherwin Williams etching primer and top coat with rustoleum at no extra cost if the customer is ok with it. Proper prep and quality primers and paints will last a long time. Moisture is a big factor so proper washing and drying will help prolong all v-dubs. |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4098
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| wrstp wrote: |
| MsTaboo wrote: |
Hi wrstp, Very nice.
Quick question. What type of surface prep are you using for surface rust on panels that are subsequently covered up? Ospho?
Thanks. |
I'm not partial to anything in particular and if the customer provides a certain paint I am more then happy to use it. I will use Sherwin Williams etching primer and top coat with rustoleum at no extra cost if the customer is ok with it. Proper prep and quality primers and paints will last a long time. Moisture is a big factor so proper washing and drying will help prolong all v-dubs. |
I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. What I meant was what kind of "rust converter" are you using to prevent the continued spread of rust?
When I replaced the rockers on my 71 Bay I was appalled at all the surface rust on the structure under the outer panels. I used Ospho, but was wondering what others are using. I have a project coming up this spring.
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Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
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wrstp
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
| wrstp wrote: |
| MsTaboo wrote: |
Hi wrstp, Very nice.
Quick question. What type of surface prep are you using for surface rust on panels that are subsequently covered up? Ospho?
Thanks. |
I'm not partial to anything in particular and if the customer provides a certain paint I am more then happy to use it. I will use Sherwin Williams etching primer and top coat with rustoleum at no extra cost if the customer is ok with it. Proper prep and quality primers and paints will last a long time. Moisture is a big factor so proper washing and drying will help prolong all v-dubs. |
I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. What I meant was what kind of "rust converter" are you using to prevent the continued spread of rust?
When I replaced the rockers on my 71 Bay I was appalled at all the surface rust on the structure under the outer panels. I used Ospho, but was wondering what others are using. I have a project coming up this spring. |
I have never used the ospho but have read on here that its good. Por15 is really good as well as Eastwood products. Now keep in mind and I tell all my customers it comes down to care of your bus. No amount of paint will make up for you neglecting the care of your bus. Its sounds corny but putting the time and money into a bus means its part of the family and that's how we need to treat it. Basically another needy kid! In short keep it clean and dry for many happy years of rust free enjoyment. |
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