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targis58
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2006
Posts: 539
Location: sunnyvale,ca
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 Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: Acrylic canvas from different vendors |
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As far as I know there are acrylic canvas available from van cafe, go westy And the one from Quebec ( forgot the name). Are they the same material but different manufacturer?
I am thinking of getting this replaced but kinda nervous about ill fitting canvas that some of members claimed...
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90 westy 2wd w/ TBD |
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photogdave
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Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3052
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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cellerdoor
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2012
Posts: 403
Location: Fairfax Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I am also in the same place with my pop top replacement and was wondering if the vendors all buy theirs from the same "tenting" company, but it doesnt sound as if this is the case..
Looking for quality myself, dont want to do this twice.
86 Westy GL |
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campism
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4491
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Acrylic canvas from different vendors |
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| targis58 wrote: |
| And the one from Quebec ( forgot the name). Are they the same material but different manufacturer? |
Ateliers PK. |
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targis58
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2006
Posts: 539
Location: sunnyvale,ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Acrylic canvas from different vendors |
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| campism wrote: |
| targis58 wrote: |
| And the one from Quebec ( forgot the name). Are they the same material but different manufacturer? |
Ateliers PK. |
Haha thanks
Good to know the north westy offers one too
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7916
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Acrylic canvas from different vendors |
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| targis58 wrote: |
As far as I know there are acrylic canvas available from van cafe, go westy And the one from Quebec ( forgot the name). Are they the same material but different manufacturer?
I am thinking of getting this replaced but kinda nervous about ill fitting canvas that some of members claimed... |
It's my understanding that VC and GW get their acrylic tents from Coleman (edit: Not Coleman; it's ACME!). Mine wasn't ill-fitting, but one rear corner and one front corner seam began tearing during installation (had to cut the bungee in order to prevent the rear from tearing completely; the tearing was due primarily to the back-stitch being outside the seam). There were also two small cuts in the front window zipper webbing (didn't find that out until after the tent was completely installed).
Overall, I like the tent, but am glad I didn't have to pay full-price for the thing (bought it via GW). Used it for the first time last week; the 3 windows were glorious... when it finally stopped raining. 
If I had to it over I'd go with the German canvas or wait for Ateliers'.
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~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子
Last edited by kamzcab86 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Acrylic canvas from different vendors |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| I'd go with the German canvas or wait for Ateliers'. |
Wow.
So I am not the only one...
I had exact same problems on mine.. Started install a couple weeks ago.
Rear seams began to let go almost exactly as what you show.
Frustrating.. Why?
Because it happens when install is 95% complete.
I called GW and they sent a new tent out.. but the quality looks about the same. I took the old one off to return to GW's supplier... and the tent, now off, shows excessive stretching.. I am thinking maybe some dimensions were off in this batch. Replacement tent has similar dimensions.
Seams are not very even, like the first one.. It looks like felt on the window hem.. Just not all that great.
I called Ateleir's but he said 6 months. GW had thier's on sale thru promo code.. All said, I have a new one here waiting on install. And I can't get very excited about experiencing the same problem.
Saw one of Atelier's installed on Juanb's van last weekend. FAR superior product in my opinion.
I may return both GW tents.. and get money back. Wait for Atelier to find some time for me.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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JED THE SPREAD
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Joined: July 14, 2009
Posts: 626
Location: South London UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting to hear all your feedback as I am well over due to do the one on my van. Especially as during my last trip I woke one morning to find my son had put his foot through the side of it in his sleep 
jed
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a pic suggesting what may be going on..
Those are openiings where each stitch passes thru the canvas..
Too large a needle?
Wrong type of needle.
Am bummed... because it's not a very fun job when you finish it and realize that the original one was in better shape than the new one you just spent 4 hrs putting in?
It also looks like the fabricator was rushed.. the arced seams around the front window looked ametuerish. There were other quality issues.. but I did not feel like I got my $500 worth.. and I wonder if a pro installer could have done better than me?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7916
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
Those are openiings where each stitch passes thru the canvas..
Too large a needle?
Wrong type of needle. |
Possibly too large a needle, but even the original tent had holes like that; it's mainly, IMO, improper sewing technique. Instead of sewing the pieces together, then folding over the excess fabric and sewing it into what appears to be a fold-over seam, they should have joined the corners, folded over the fabric and then made their two, and only two, stitch lines. Barring that (for time purposes) they should pay attention to the direction in which the fabric is folded over; each corner should have been folded opposite the direction that would have the most pull during installation, which is front-to-back, to alleviate the pull on the primary stitch.
The left rear corner of my tent is just dandy; the right rear is the one that was/is tearing (I'll be putting a seam sealer on it the next time it's up). It just so happens that the right rear seam was a) stitched outside the fold and, b) was folded over in the opposite direction of the left rear seam, meaning that the force of the pull in the right rear would undoubtedly pull on the primary stitch, causing the tearing you see in the photo. Not to mention that the bottom perimeter of the tent seemed too small; the top perimeter was actually larger than it should be (and what's with it curving inward up front so that it practically rests against the push-up bar?).
| j_dirge wrote: |
| There were other quality issues.. but I did not feel like I got my $500 worth.. and I wonder if a pro installer could have done better than me? |
Definitely not worth $400-500 and a pro-installer would, IMO, not have done any better because it's a product issue, not an installation issue. Had I not installed this tent over a 3-day period 4 hours away from home (at a large garage with neat-o tools), I would've sent the tent back.
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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randywebb
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Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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before backpacking & mountaineering tents had factory sealed seams, they used to sell seam sealant for the buyer to do it
maybe they still make the stuff - you might try it
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targis58
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2006
Posts: 539
Location: sunnyvale,ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Do you still have to wait about 6 mo. to get their product?
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bjrogers86auto
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2009
Posts: 1375
Location: Halifax, N.S.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: tents |
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BD OEM canvas. Excellent fit. Excellent quality. 4 yrs later it looks like new.
Installed it myself.
Brian
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
Those are openiings where each stitch passes thru the canvas..
Too large a needle?
Wrong type of needle. |
Possibly too large a needle, but even the original tent had holes like that; it's mainly, IMO, improper sewing technique. |
Very possible..
I've been around a lot of marine canvas.. custom bimini tops, dodgers, etc. There definitely aren't those types of holes in those products. I know you have to use a ball needle to avoid breaking individual threads.. And in my case the individual threads are not broken(yet) but they are spalyed out as though the weaving of the fabric itself is pulling apart.. That just doesn't happen with Sunbrella, in my limited experience.
I may drop by a local marine canavs place and ask "whaddup?"
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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whynotvw
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: tents |
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| bjrogers86auto wrote: |
BD OEM canvas. Excellent fit. Excellent quality. 4 yrs later it looks like new.
Installed it myself.
Brian |
Sorry but there is no comparison between the oem type material and Sunbrella or acrylic material. My oem lasted 20 plus years and mine only had few tiny holes when I replaced mine. Having said that oem will do its job. But Sunbrella or acrylic is much thicker will last much longer and better in my opinion.
I just went on Atelierspk site and I guess they are only couple of months back.
I've installed mine by myself (8 hours) and I must say the quality is absolutely great. I'm glad I spent few dollars more to get the sunbrella or acrylic. (twice as thick)
After reading this thread, I'm glad I didn't go with GW or Van-cafe. |
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theadventureneverends
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Joined: December 24, 2009
Posts: 585
Location: Gig Harbor WA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I will add my two cents if I can find it as it disappeared with my marbles on my still unfinished tent install.
Not a vendor bash. I have the highest regard for the vendor I purchase from.
I have 91 Westfalia syncro with an oem top. I ordered a three window acrylic. I did a ton of research I mean days and weeks. I figured that the Canadian guys would be primo but then I think he moved to the other side of Canada and something about a 6 month wait.
I did not buy a cheap three window I went with what I thought would be the best choice. With the amount of money and TIME I have invested in our syncro I just dont care anymore if its $400 or $800 as long as its right and the quality is there.
I am perfectly content doing any repairs or rebuilds on my vehicles. This top thing is a pissy job though. I have a two car high roof shop, another two car garage massive level driveway and any tool I want I finally have an absolute perfect setup (only mentioning so one can see the whole picture I have the time space and tools and I am bummed). I gave myself 2 full days to replace the canvas and watched all videos I could find.
My wife and I removed the top. I felt this would be the best way and it would allow me to clean and inspect all areas. What I found when removing the oem was wow this thing is 22 years old and the quality is so there. When I compared it to my new canvas I was devastated. The oem was perfection and fit perfectly. The new one was significantly different just about on every angle and measurement. I emailed the vendor that evening and a new one was in a UPS 2 day box by 8am the following day. Hows that for customer service! Well they took it a step further and measured the 5 they had in stock to make sure I was getting a good one!!
It arrived early the next day! It was off the oem measurements even more so! Now things are really pissy. I have one vacation and this weekend was to be our first westy and only westy trip of the year! My top is off what to do? Well if the one I just got was right there with the other good five they had in stock but the first one is closer to oem than the new one. I figured shoots might as well try the better of the two. Followed directions to the letter.
Three days into the process, really going slowly and carefully. Its back on top.Spent the day yesterday attaching the bottom to the roof. Front left lower seam corner 2" area on a crappy seam blowing out. Right rear corner 1.5" area on crappy seam blowing out. Left rear corner still not quite attached due to it being so tight. Had to quit for the night last night dreading the final push and it will take two people... Wife pulls into drive and says wow its on!! When are you going to make it tight????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its so dang tight I cant get the last corner down. She is talking about all the crazy excess material vertically on three sides! Well it is nice to know I am not the only one who was looking at all the flapping in the wind as I was up in that little puka getting stiff, sore and cranky
Again I followed all directions and yes I had the top resting on 30" s as I attached it to the bottom. Do I think a shop could have installed that top better? Absolutely not. Is a shop going to be in that westy for twenty more years? Does a shop have ten other vans waiting for work with impatient owners? Does a shop give an estimate for their time and attempt to stick to it? Would a shop have attempted to install a canvas that was so off from oem? I imagine some would and some would not. I had the time, tools, space and knowledge. I also had no other choice being that we were supposed to be headed to ea Wa. tonight for six days of camping and the bugs would kill us with no top.
This is rather long I am at work on a boat with nothing else to do. So vent it is but more importantly hopefully I say something that helps.
I imagine these top issues are a pain for the vendor and the American manufacturer. What I dont get is why the Vendors dont insist their suppliers actually make a top to OEM specs? Why would the manufacturer let anything out the door that is so many inches off from oem?
I have know doubt my vendor will do all they can to make it right. They already sent my first bummed email to the manufacturer.
I did take video of this experience and will post at some point. I did find a couple things that I feel really helped.
There just must be some good batches of these tents and some bad ones as I have seen some sweet ones here on thesamba where the install was cake. Had mine been even close to oem spec it would not have been a bad thing probably actually really rewarding and about a day very well spent. I guess that old saying something about a circle and a square and something not fitting.
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whynotvw
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| theadventureneverends wrote: |
I will add my two cents if I can find it as it disappeared with my marbles on my still unfinished tent install.
Not a vendor bash. I have the highest regard for the vendor I purchase from.
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So could you share with us which vendor you used. I'm sure sometimes vendors mean their best but when they don't make it in house, quality can be less then stellar. Bad thing about this mistake is 8 hours of frustration.
This is definitely one of those jobs you only want to do it once.
If you can wait go with the Canadian co. I had no prior experience no other help, and I was able to install it without taking the top off in (8 hours)
Oh and by the way, if your old canvas is decent remove it nicely and sell it. I sold my old tent in five minutes and could've sold it 10 times over. I sold it for $50 |
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JPrato
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2006
Posts: 791
Location: Livonia, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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We installed a new acrylic 3 window top 4 years ago, don't remember who we got it from. It was crazy tight around the bottom. Did the back first, pulling it forward as we got to the front corners. We knew it was going to be tight so we really stretched forward as much as we could as we went along. We got one corner on then went over to the other. It was not going to go. At that point, either it was going on or it was going to get ripped in the process. We finally managed to get it on. The seams pulled a little bit but held. I don't know why they have to make them so tight around the bottom perimeter, it seems a common complaint.
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87 Syncro Tin Top project
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| targis58 wrote: |
| Do you still have to wait about 6 mo. to get their product? |
PK Atelier?
I emailed him not too long ago and heard back; "6 months"
You might try contacting him to see if the wait has come down some.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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ragnarhairybreeks
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009
Posts: 1890
Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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my recent experience...
Helping a friend put a 3 window, german made, cotton canvas on. This was our 4th canvas replacement, so we are not coming to it cold. Took pop top off and after cleaning and penetrol, we attached canvas to to. Nice quality canvas we agreed. Then pop top on van and set to attaching bottom of canvas. All was going well, front done and both sides attached 3/4 way to back. At that point we tried popping top fully. No go, canvas way too tight. We got back to vendor and a replacement canvas sent. This time it was a Northwesty Sunbrella 3 window. I'm not a fan of how Sunbrella "hangs" but this top was made very well. Comparing one front corner seam to the too short cotton canvas showed the too short canvas was indeed far too short. We've got the Sunbrella top attached to roof (pop top came off again, I really think it is worth the effort to remove the top) but not finished attaching bottom (work commitments interfering).
I was quite surprised at just how much the cotton canvas was short. The rest of the construction was/is first class.
alistair
PS the Northwesty canvas does seem like it is going to be a bit of a struggle towards the bottom rear.
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