Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Front Suspension Bushing Kit - Complete, or Not Complete?
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gregaz
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 404
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gregaz is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Front Suspension Bushing Kit - Complete, or Not Complete? Reply with quote

I have seen opinions falls on both sides, so I am trying to decide for myself - is this Van Cafe kit truly COMPLETE, in what I will need to rebuild the front end of my 1983.5 Westy? Or do I need other parts in addition? Or is it better to buy piecemeal to pick the best parts since I have also seen many testimonials that some brands are junk and fail quickly, and some last for as long as the originals did.

If YOU were to do a COMPLETE front end rebuild today, what would YOU do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
outwesty Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2006
Posts: 1026
Location: Santa Cruz
outwesty is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am getting ready to do this myself. Powerflex bushings seem to be the way to go.

http://www.t3technique.com/powerflex-bushings/
_________________
www.outwesty.com Vanagon Westfalia Rentals in Tahoe City, CA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
j_dirge
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4607
Location: El Cerrito, CA
j_dirge is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Bushing Kit - Complete, or Not Complete Reply with quote

gregaz wrote:

If YOU were to do a COMPLETE front end rebuild today, what would YOU do?

I did mine two yrs ago June.
And am pretty content with it... still. Tuned and aligned, it dialed in road handling quite nicely.

I used mostly all rubber bushings. Hard to beat price-wise... and ended up buying, separately, just about everything in VC's kit.. plus... like tie rod ends and ball joints. I already had a rebuilt stearing rack. And I did front bearings and brakes at the same time.
Had already gone to D-rated tires and added an Addco 25mm sway bar.

I did use Powerflex in the steering rack.. Highly recommended.

The bushing front-end rebuild is rewarding, but its not for the faint of heart.
Am still d***in' around with it.. Can't leave well enough alone, I guess. Laughing
_________________
-89 GL Westy, still humming along under the power of a used "WBXer of mystery"
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gregaz
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 404
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gregaz is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two replies, two Powerflex mentions. I am not sure I want to go all out and go ALL Powerflex - the price difference is quite drastic. However, this kind of goes after my question - is there a better, blended (PF & rubber) kit out there? Or even a parts list recommendation? Which parts absolutely MUST be Powerflex, and which make no difference? I have seen a few people mention that they use Powerflex bushings for steering, and rubber for the rest. Perhaps this is the best of both worlds? BTW, I do NOT have power steering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bosruten
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2011
Posts: 543

bosruten is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Powerflex are for life(or so they claim)! the others....maybe not. I went with Powerflex for all bushings upfront(awesome). I picked up rear c/a poly bushings from Burley, but I'm waiting for winter to change those.

Good luck!
_________________
'87 Syncro Weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
j_dirge
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4607
Location: El Cerrito, CA
j_dirge is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregaz wrote:
Which parts absolutely MUST be Powerflex, and which make no difference?

Thats personal preference.. Ask 12 different people who have ACTUALLY done this project AND have some miles in...and you'll likely get 12 different responses.

The VC rubber stuff worked pretty well for me.. I do have poly bushes in my rear swing arms.. but I would have been content with OEM style rubber there, too.

I don't know about Poweflex lasting for life.. I've seen a few deteriorating due to alignment and other mechanical issues. But I think they'd be the bees-knees on a street van.. Lowered, go-kart stylie... ya know?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, still humming along under the power of a used "WBXer of mystery"
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gregaz
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 404
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gregaz is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bosruten wrote:
Powerflex are for life(or so they claim)! the others....maybe not. I went with Powerflex for all bushings upfront(awesome). I picked up rear c/a poly bushings from Burley, but I'm waiting for winter to change those.

Good luck!


Do you mind sharing the approximate cost for going all Powerflex?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been running Powerflex since before T3Technique even offered it here in the States.
Much better than stock rubber.
I am testing a few new sets for Chris right now...good stuff Exclamation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
teej
Samba Member


Joined: November 26, 2010
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle
teej is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a mix of PF and rubber about a year ago. PF: steering rack, sway bar, end links. Meyle UCAB. Van-Cafe stock radius arm bushings w/ GW stainless sleeves. Upper ball joints and tie rods also redone.

A year later the Meyle UCAB's squeaked again, so I did them with the Powerflex ones, along with the LCAB also in PF.

After each session I got a quality alignment done.

I don't have much to compare to, but the front end feels awesome: supple with good, reasonably precise resilient roadfeel is the best way I can describe it. Better: it is fun to drive.

If I were to do it again, I would if I could afford it, and also skip the standard UCAB and start with Powerflex there. Plus they are easier to install. If I went with standard UCABs, I would do the mod found in a big thread on UCABs: in there recently find where experienced member tencentlife modified some of the stock UCAB's to hold their grease better.

I am curious how PF radius bushings would perform, but in our case new rubber there seems to be doing fine after a year.

Anectdotal evidence only, but I regret none of the areas we chose to do with Powerflex.
_________________
1986+ Wolfsburg Weekender Pop-Top 2.1 WBX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am testing the Powerflex radius rod bushing set, yellow, soft, on my 91 Syncro Westy currently.
It has been raised to the max and had been having slight alignment issues.
Very nice so far.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
furrylittleotter
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: West Seattle
furrylittleotter is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by furrylittleotter on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
syncrodoka
Samba Member


Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 11175
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
syncrodoka is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

furrylittleotter wrote:
Never did find the Lemfoerder Ball joints, I think I left the old (relatively new) ones on for now. Buslab was supposed to be getting them, but I never tried to get ahold of them.

When I talked to Marco from buslab at syncrofest in April he said that they had the Lemfoerder parts in stock. He said that they convinced a distributor to import them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
syncrodoka
Samba Member


Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 11175
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
syncrodoka is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rebuilt my front end with all of the parts listed in the VC link 6+ years ago. There was a noticeable improvement in the ride quality, cornering and stability. The UCA bushings are the only part that have been less than great(squeaky after water crossing/rain) but I will be swapping in Burley upper control arms that eliminate them anyways.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gregaz
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 404
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gregaz is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow ... you're not kidding about the plethora of opinions! So, if I went Powerflex for the steering, and rubber for everything else - is that a healthy mix? How many bushings are there in the back - probably should do those at the same time!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gregaz
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 404
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gregaz is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

furrylittleotter wrote:
I rebuilt my 84 front end in April,. Went with Powerflex steering rack bshngs, Burley lower bushings, Burley arms, Flennor tie rod assemblies and arms, and Van CafeRadius arm bushings and I hate to be negative but I am a little pissed that the radius arm bushings are cracked already. Never did find the Lemfoerder Ball joints, I think I left the old (relatively new) ones on for now. Buslab was supposed to be getting them, but I never tried to get ahold of them. I recommend everything I bought but the Radius arm bushings. Burleys arms are phenomenal. Give me all the adjustment I need.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=504445&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


WOW! Outstanding writeup! Thank you so much for taking the time and documenting. I am going to digest all of it and see if I can arrive at something similar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rubbachicken
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
rubbachicken is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did the complete powerflex bushing kit on my vanagon in the UK, it made a big difference, i changed the steering rack bushes aswell
be sure to change the top and bottom ball joints and the ball joint on the steering.
and the rubber bushes on the steering column.

changing part will make it some better, if you want a new or better than new you need to change everything !
_________________
lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'


markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubbified
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1287
Location: Redmond, WA
dubbified is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outwesty wrote:
I am getting ready to do this myself. Powerflex bushings seem to be the way to go.

http://www.t3technique.com/powerflex-bushings/


Did OEM first, with good known components and ran it for a year..

Then went ALL urethane..

Wont even debate going back, or NOT doing this ever again (full replacement, all bushes) with Rubber.

Urethane, far superior ride.


Last edited by dubbified on Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
gregaz
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 404
Location: Phoenix, AZ
gregaz is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So .... does anyone have even a ballpark figure for how much it would cost o go all urethane?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bosruten
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2011
Posts: 543

bosruten is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go here http://www.t3technique.com/ and here http://burleysmotorsports.com/
Both were super friendly and professional
Add up what you need! Smile

Cheers!
_________________
'87 Syncro Weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shadetreetim
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1994
Location: Riverside, California
shadetreetim is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregaz wrote:
So .... does anyone have even a ballpark figure for how much it would cost o go all urethane?


I recently figured this up for the powerflex front and rear and if I remember correctly it was $650-$675 (excluding the radius rod bushings).

gregaz wrote:
How many bushings are there in the back

There are 4 bushings in the rear. Not that hard to swap.

I recently did fronts and rears (excluding the radius rod bushings, see the thread in my siggy) and would recommend it highly.
_________________
Tim Potts

Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!


'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'10 Wrangler 3.8 6SP Manual
'12 Ford E350
'12 Tiguan 2.0T 6SP Tiptronic - Lady Shadetree's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB