Syncro Body Creases forward of rear shock towers

[Jon_slider]

There is a discussion going on the Yahoo Syncro Group about the presence of reinforced frame rails on 89 and later Syncros. There is also mention of the reinforced body panels on Syncro 16's.

http://autos.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/52671
> I have a 1989 Syncro GL passenger van, no lockers, hardtop. It was manufactured
June of '88. It HAS the reinforced frame rails.
Also, developing a crease in the sheet metal above and to the front of the rear
wheel well, seems to be common with the off roaders.

http://autos.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/52681
> AFAIK the Syncro 16" had reinforcements for the body panels (on the inside)
around that area, as well as for the rear upper spring / shock mounts,
which presumably was done to address the weakness that causes the creasing.


When I saw body creases forward of my rear shock towers on my 87 Syncro, which has neither reinforced frame rails, nor reinforced body panels, I contact the owner of a 1990 Syncro 16 that has BOTH the reinforced frame rails AND the reinforced body panels. Neither feature prevented that 1990 Syncro from developing body creases on Both sides.

this photo shows the location of my body crease, although it is not visible at this angle.

afaik, there is no way to prevent this from happening to a syncro that is used offroad in ways that puts less than all 4 wheels on the ground at all times. I believe the crease is caused by terrain that causes the front end to try to do wheelies, or makes one of the front wheels airborne.

I believe my crease was caused during this maneuver:


Link

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[SyncroGhia]

This is a common problem on Syncros that are offroaded a lot and exaggerated when stiffer springs are fitted.

It's just one of those 'Syncro' things.

Limey is the same.

MG
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[rubbachicken]

can and where does extra strength need to be added to prevent this
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[BillM]

Should it be worn as a badge of honor or as I am actively
looking for a syncro something that I see should be avoided?
I have been pursuing a late model and really trying to avoid
the earlier ones though it doesn't seem to be avoidable by
any year if driven hard enough. I just wonder if it creases
on the body is there also damage underneath or elsewhere?
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Bill M
87 Westy

[Jon_slider]

[BillM]

Jon is yours creased on both sides or just the one?
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Bill M
87 Westy

[furrylittleotter]

delete

[Jon_slider]

I have only creased the side with the westy cabinets and spare tire carrier, my US driver side, so far.

But the couple other syncros I know of with creases, have them on both sides.

I think those drivers like to get airborne more than I do.

Or maybe they have taller gearing and/or charge steep terrain changes faster than I do.

My crease could also have happened at the moment of my front tires impacting with the initial slope, just before the wheelie stage on the video. On that run, I was using more speed than normal, because I had stalled the previous attempt at slower speed. I later learned airing down was more effective than using more speed/momentum, to climb that obstacle.
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[syncrodoka]

DLJ showed me that crease on his van a year or 2 ago, i have seen it a few times since from the more adventurous syncro drivers.
There are no panels to flex since the entire van is welded together and the stresses will manifest somewhere.
Accept it as a badge of honor or a scar- chix dig scars.

[insyncro]

Nicely done

[Syncrozilla]

So far the evidence seems to suggest that adding the 16" reinforcements (that Dylan illistrated above) will not prevent the side body creases.

My 90 hardtop has been wheeled pretty hard but has not developed the creases. It does have the reinforced frame but not the "16 reinforcements.

Are there any hard tops with the crease or are they all van that are westys or converted campers with holes in the roof?

I also wonder if there is any correlation with total weight. I try to keep my van pretty light. It has a very spartan interior and I pack pretty light. I don't carry a slew of extra Jerry cans, firewood, water, etc etc. I have the factory rear seat plus maybe 250 lbs worth of gear for sleeping eating and possible field repairs.
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[syncrodoka]

The vans that i have noticed with the wrinkle usually are campers of some variety.

[dipple]

I also have this crease on my high top camper. It was done during a creek crossing. I hit the far bank and the front 2 wheels went up in the air and came down hard. It is a 1991 with syncro.org and OME's a the time. I also had airbags in the springs. I did not notice until a few day later. Passenger side only though.
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1998 Syncro TDI Passat

[crazyvwvanman]

My 87 Syncro Camper has had it for many years, looking like Brent's on the driver side and barely a touch on the pass side. I always feared it would get worse but it never has that I can tell. Are there any reports of progressive worsening to greater damage than what Brent shows?

Mark

[kuleinc]

I have a 2WD westy, a pretty heavy one. My last outing I feared I would get the crinkles. I had the front end in the air twice, and the back in the air once. Everything came off the dash. No crinkles yet. Mostly I get air born when I'm nervous about getting bogged down or stuck in something like a mud pit, and I floor it, and suddenly discover a hidden ramp of some sort
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496946 1987 VW Vanagon Westfalia with 1.8T

[syncrodoka]

Jon_slider and SyncroGhia have a hardtop to westy conversion
CVbill and DLJ have a hard top to country homes conversion
dipple has a hard top to high top conversion
Interesting

Is yours a factory conversion mark?

Any hardtops with the super syncro wrinkle?

[crazyvwvanman]

Mine was a hardtop when I bought it and then I put the Westy stuff in it.

Mark

[itsasyncro]

My tin top got the wrinkles when I did hells revenge at
Syncro Solstice.
Prominent on the passenger side, not as bad on the
drivers side.

[syncrodoka]

How did you get your super syncro wrinkle itsasyncro?
Was there airtime involved?

I have accidentally jumped my truck once but it was just going over a rise on a fire road that dropped off not on difficult terrain. I don't have it but there are other "experience" points.

[GoWestyYoungMan]

I doubt anyone has tried a stacked double coil over shock set-up, but would be interesting to consider if the progressive rate upper could absorb the force better than single spring.
Here is technical explaination:
http://www.hypercoils.com/mph/tech-tips/hyperco-stacked-spring-dual-rate-setup

More...
http://derisiracing.com/home/suspension/suspension-design