Cranks but won't start

[randywebb]

I used to have an intermittent no crank problem with my Vanagon, and was never able to cure it, but now...

it cranks fine but will not start.

Here is what I've done:

- replaced cap, rotor, alt. belt & spark plug wires (2 years; 3,000 miles ago)

- replaced ignition switch with FLAPS version (white one; not black/white version that VC sells); checked connections to starter

- replaced neutral safety switch

- replaced Fuel filter and all Fuel hoses (little debris seen when opened up old fuel filter)
- all fuel injectors rebuilt & tested

- tested coil resistance - OK (1o = 0.8 ohm (spec = 0.5 to 0.8 ); 2o = 2.9 kohm (spec = 2.4 to 3.5 kohm))

- oxygen sensor replaced, O2

- cleaned throttle body & adjusted idle switch on bench

- replaced Temp 2 (II) sensor

After doing all the above, I still had the int. no crank problem. After the Vanagon sat for a few months, it now will not start at all.

What else should I do?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[rubbachicken]

check for a spark, check for fuel pressure, check grounds
can you hear the fuel pump, fuel filter ?

what voltage do you have at the coil when cranking the engine
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[randywebb]

[0to60in6min]

did you try starter fluid?

[rubbachicken]

[IdahoDoug]

Starter fluid is actually an excellent diagnostic tool. If it fires up on the starter fluid, you just cut your work in half. Yes, you can see spark on the plugs other ways, but this confirms timing, that the engine is properly coordinated, etc. It's not harmful to an engine when used normally.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[randywebb]

so, where do you spray it -- on a FI motor like the Digifant system?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[16CVs]

My Syncro which I use everyday ,died at the bank .It drove in fine and would not re Start . I checked the Fuel pump relay ,it was good . I then loosened the distributor clamp and noted the position and the turned the distributor clockwise and counter clockwise and listened for the fuel pump to vibrate the hoses , there was no noise . I went to the fuel pump and powered it up with "Powerprobe" and it lit up . I then noticed that the terminals for the pump were dirty and tarnished . I hit them with a scuff pad and put them back on .
The Truck started right up . I tightened the Distributor and away I went . A couple of side notes to this ,unplug the Idle air valve as it vibrates with the key on as well . I found that using this procedure is easier than the jump the relay as a way to test the fuel pump .
If the fuel pump is not buzzing ,the van will not start . Also check the ring on the back of the alternator as times it cracks .
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[morymob]

Agree with start fluid as a tool, quick shot(1/2 sec),carried for yrs in my'odd stuff fits all kit'. On wbx the vac hose on press reg, if not cut to a min length, a shot goes into plenum directly, east to get to and can leave hose off to test and replace if a fuel prob is discovered. Do u hav a tac??, if it moves when cranking the hall/ecu this far is good, then u check for spark at plug(s).

[Jake de Villiers]

Have you checked for spark?
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'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
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[IdahoDoug]

Randy,

I had someone at the ignition key and sprayed into the rubber boot's air cleaner end after pulling the air cleaner away from it and holding a good gap with something to let the spray/air go in. Once they are cranking, THEN fire it in. If you fire the spray into a stopped engine, most of it just wets the walls of the intake. So, you want vapor getting sucked in. This minimizes the amount you need, and minimizes hosing things down with essentially a powerful cleaner.

DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[randywebb]

ok, here is the situation - I can physically only do certain tests - I am (now) temporarily partly disabled from a bicycle accident (a hit and run that occurred when I rode my bike to meet a tow truck driver to get the Vanagon towed when it failed to start), and do not have any friends to call on for auto repair help. So I will not be able to do the starting spray for inability to do it the way Doug explained.

I did turn the key to "on" and then walk around to the other side and get down and listen to the fuel pump - also felt it (with the hand that has pretty good sense of touch). I heard nothing; felt nothing.

BUT, I have never heard the fuel pump run from the driver's seat, even when listening for it (that's with key to 'on'; engine not stater; also with engine idling - never hear the pump).

So SHOULD I definitely be able to hear the pump when next to it?

I assume the DigiFunky EFI system is similar to most others - the pump always runs when the key is set to 'on' and extra fuel is simply bypassed by the pressure regulator and returned to the tank. i.e. there s no timer, etc. that will kill the pump if the engine is not turning over...

Correct?
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[IdahoDoug]

No u wont hear r feel pump that way. More later phon batt dying
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[kamzcab86]

[randywebb]

The Black wire to the coil is seeing about 11 V when the key is turned to On (the battery terminals measure 12.5 V). Is that too low?

I also was able to get both relays in the box above the coil removed. Externally, the terminals look nice and clean. Both are the gray "24" relays -- is there an easy way to test them?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[crazyvwvanman]

Unplug all the black wires from the black wire side of the coil except the one from the key switch. Then measure again.

Mark

[randywebb]

there is only 1 Black wire on the coil

- do you mean unplug the Black/Yellow wire?

- there are also some Green wires on the other primary terminal...
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[crazyvwvanman]

Some early 2.1 harnesses used a black/yellow to pass 12 volts from the junction on the black wire power on side of the coil to the FI harness for relay control. Unplug everything from that junction except the wire from the key switch.

EDIT:later harnesses have the same power on wire branching off from the coil for relay control, it is just solid black instead of black/yellow or black/white. Some very early 86 used a different wiring scheme for relay control entirely. You must look at the VIN# and verify the harness if an 86 vin prior to about 55,000.

Mark

[OrganicMechanic]

the hall pick up could be an issue as well. If you chafed the wires when doing the cap and rotor, it would give crank and no start.

[randywebb]

with the black/yellow wire disconnected - I measure 11.5 V at the coil terminal

with the black/yellow connected, 11.0 V

- both are with ign. switched to ON and are in between the relay clicking noise I posted about in another thread, which is coming from somewhere up higher than the relay fuse panel

This "cranks but will never start problem" happened after the van was parked for about 2 months - previous to that it has had an intermittent problem of the same nature (for years) but always seemed to eventually start. Over several years I did all the replacements & checks in the OP, trying over & over again to fix the issue. So, no, I don't think any wires were bumped/chafed except maybe by an ant crawling around or something...
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.