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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12007
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mathieux46 wrote: |
The light eventually come on when I leave the knob pull at idle and create with no load on the dog by not moving. I tried with both rear wheel of the ground and the locker work quick and normally so I don't think the vaccum or electrical could be the issue.
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Sounds like a vacuum leak or a gunked up locker shaft(both common).
My locker comes on and off pretty quickly at idle if everything is lined up correctly internally. |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I would check for a vacuum leak, and I'd consider removing the switch and cleaning it. If the locker is engaged, but the switch is not agreeing then I'd check the switch first.
DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1507
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the locker is working fine, but the switch is sticky. Pull it and lube it. iIRC it is difficult to get to and don't forget to clean well around it before you remove it.
Check out this link for a clear visual of the switch.....
http://www.syncronauts.org.uk/syncro-technical/syn...rs-removal
Thanks all for the great images and video.
_________________
1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12007
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
I would check for a vacuum leak, and I'd consider removing the switch and cleaning it. If the locker is engaged, but the switch is not agreeing then I'd check the switch first.
DougM |
There is a detent in the locker shaft that the locker switch drops into when fully engaged. If the system is slow to actuate something like this could easily happen. |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12007
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Her is a quick generic speed test of my locker at idle. How does yours compare?
Please forgive my dirty arse hands.
Link
Last edited by syncrodoka on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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link says "video is private" and won't show anything. Curious to see as I put a new actuator, vacuum valve and cleaned up the shaft on my locker and it was very fast, so curious how others are.
DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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It can only be fast if the lugs are already aligned.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12007
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Try again, I changed the setting. Locking/unlocking is less than 1 sec.
Link
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12007
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| It can only be fast if the lugs are already aligned. |
Absolutely.
This is the sentence that puzzles me
| mathieux46 wrote: |
| The light eventually come on when I leave the knob pull at idle and create with no load on the dog by not moving. I tried with both rear wheel of the ground and the locker work quick and normally |
The engagement shouldn't come on eventually but fairly quick. |
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Tristar Eric
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Joined: July 25, 2004
Posts: 1242
Location: Portland, Or
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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I've seen plenty of slow reacting switches, sticky mung inside the switch. I would rather have a slow reacting switch than one that is on all the time.
In the right circumstances you can definately tell when you're locked and when you're not.
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Vanagon/Transporter flares here: www.terrawagen.com
[email protected] |
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mathieux46
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Joined: October 21, 2006
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Under normal condition I really have the impression I'm not fully engage. The rear tire sĥirp ( so I'm locked ) but the light doesn't come on. I've removed, check and cleaned the switch, it working well.
Syncrodoka, mine engage/disengage ( with light working fine ) as fast as your but only when I lift both rear wheel of the ground or once it has engage one time and I've only driven straight.
I also tought it could be the vaccum valve/switch so I've tried to connected ( with new spare hose ) the vaccum actuator ( also new ) directly to the vaccum canistor, same behavior, very slow engagement of the light but tire do shirp. Then I lifted both rear wheel of the ground and the light came on right away.
Strange, I feel the dogs are not going all the was in until there is really no log on them like when the van rest idling for a while or if I lift both rear wheel.
I don't want to deviate the thread but just wanted to see if Ithe dogs could be partially engaged or if this impossible.
I'm going offroading/camping all weekend, I will report more!
Mat |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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If the tires are chirping, the locker is engaged. Period. I don't understand how you can "feel" that some further engagement happens. You may be right that the dogs are not fully engaged and move another fraction of an inch after a while, but that is impossible to feel from the driver's seat.
So, I feel that your locker mechanism is physically working correctly, but there is something wrong with the indicator light system (internal short, weak ground, poor connection in the circuit, etc).
Have fun camping!!
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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hilfigers
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2023
Posts: 9
Location: Hungary-Europe-Earth
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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| Hey Guys! I'm new in this synchro thing. I have a Multivan Synchro with two diff locks. I read this topic but I have inverse issue like most of the members here. The back diff is stay locked even is the light is switching on/off. I tried to unplug the vacuum hoses from the actuator but nothing change. Sometimes I think it unlocks but when I driving without using the lock and I turning in a small circle I can feel it locked again. How is this possible? |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9615
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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Link
| hilfigers wrote: |
Multivan Synchro with two diff locks.
I have inverse issue.
The back diff is stay locked even if the light is switching on/off. |
It is feasible that the moment the light switch closes is not equal to the moment that the lock engages the dogs.
| hilfigers wrote: |
I tried to unplug the vacuum hoses from the actuator but nothing change.
Sometimes I think it unlocks but when I driving without using the lock and I turning in a small circle I can feel it locked again.
How is this possible? |
Perhaps your shift mechanism is not traveling the full distance, only operating in the middle.
Perhaps erratic operation because the shaft is not moving freely.
The actuator does not have much force available, it's only "engine vacuum" acting upon a small diaphragm.
Here is an image to ensure that you understand the actuator.
and........
which nipple LOCKs <-------------> which nipple UNlocks.
In the video, the vacuum pump is connected to the left side nipple only, that's why it is 'unlocked', pushing the selector to the right by hand.
It seems you have the same 3 questions that every Syncro owner has (when it doesn't work):
1) Is the light system operating properly?
2) Are the actuator vacuum lines connected properly?
3) Is the mechanism inside the differential operating properly?
Others often have a 4th problem - the light does not turn on at all.
Here's what I would do to identify your problem:
Get a long hose reaching from the diff lock actuator to the driver-seat. Disconnect both hoses from the actuator andlug them "together" (blocking the engine and brake vacuum).
Attach the hose to the unlock-side of the actuator. Suck on it (with your mouth or a hand-vacuum pump). Watch the light and watch the differential behavior.
Attach the hose to the LOCK-side of the actuator. Suck on it. Note the light and the differential behavior.
This will help to isolate the problem.
====== My stuck-locker problem and repair ========
Perhaps this helps to find your problem.
======================================
The diff-lock mechanism slider is a very tight-tolerance mechanism with a tiny x-ring seal.
The steel shaft slides in an aluminum sleeve.
This aluminum sleeve is inserted into the magnesium case and fits fairly tight.
Because the seal is so small, the clearance to the shaft is also very small.
The shaft is steel. I have heard that it can get corrosion on it, increasing the friction.
I have a Syncro that was parked for 31 years.
The diff-lock actuator was stuck.
I disassembled it and found NO corrosion on the steel shaft (100% perfect).
But I did find white corrosion on the outside of the aluminum sleeve where the aluminum contacted the magnesium.
This corrosion area corresponded with a "lump" inside the sleeve bore, that collapsed the aluminum sleeve, squeezing the steel shaft.
I carefully 'broached?" this lump with a drill bit, being very careful to preserve the zone where the tiny X-ring seals.
Or replace the sleeve. New sleeves are still available at Weddle and perhaps other sellers (~$70?).
See pics on this other post[/b]
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:18 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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The vacuum actuator drawing is wrong when using vacuum, you got it reversed.
Applying vacuum to the outer nipple unlocks. It's just a diaphragm inside.
You can use pressure on the opposite side to get the same effect too.
While offroading with a friend, his front locker was not staying on and we were trying to get out of a ditch, so I took the panel off the dash, and blew air by mouth in the opposite hose to lock it the whole time he needed it locked just to get out of there. The recall spring helps unlocking.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9615
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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oops, thanks, fixed the diagram
Thanks for including mention of the spring that biases towards unlock.
Interesting idea, that vacuum on one side PLUS pressure on the other side will increase the force applied to a sticky mechanism.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12007
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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The diff lock actuator spring
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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| Sodo wrote: |
oops, thanks, fixed the diagram
Thanks for including mention of the spring that biases towards unlock.
Interesting idea, that vacuum on one side PLUS pressure on the other side will increase the force applied to a sticky mechanism. |
I think in this case he most likely had a leak on the locking side of the nipple more than a sticky actuator rod. I wasn't gonna crawl under in the mud in a sketchy situation to find out 
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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| My diff lock mechanism is very tight on my trans. I'm wondering if a Teflon flanged bushing where the shaft slides thru the case would be a good idea while I'm rebuilding it. |
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hilfigers
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2023
Posts: 9
Location: Hungary-Europe-Earth
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro diff lock video |
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| Sodo wrote: |
It seems you have the same 3 questions that every Syncro owner has (when it doesn't work):
1) Is the light system operating properly?
2) Are the actuator vacuum lines connected properly?
3) Is the mechanism inside the differential operating properly?
Others often have a 4th problem - the light does not turn on at all.
[/url][/u][/b] |
Okay, so the light is definitely works well. I was switched the vacuums and the light is fliped too.
When I unplug the vacuums I can feel the sucking on the unlocking side. When I turn on the lock I can feel sucking on the locking side too but much weaker.
Here's what I experience just now. When the vehicle is parking the diff is unlocked (with cold engine) but if I take some kms and try to park in reverse I can feel it locked and I'm didn't touched the switch in the meantime.Maybe the spring is broken?
This synchro was parked a lot too. I bought from a 81 years old man, who never used the locks. The drive shaft was not on the car when I bought it. The car is in very rare mint condition.
| Sodo wrote: |
Here's what I would do to identify your problem:
Get a long hose reaching from the diff lock actuator to the driver-seat. Disconnect both hoses from the actuator andlug them "together" (blocking the engine and brake vacuum).
[/url][/u][/b] |
It sounds promising. I will try this, thanks! |
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