Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Vanagon External Oil Cooler Install - Rear Fender
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Vanagon External Oil Cooler Install - Rear Fender Reply with quote

My conversion (parts and process 100% applicable to stock wbx) has been in need of external oil cooling. The stock coolant/oil cooler wasn't keeping up on long highway trips with oil temps increasing to the 120C area. At approx. 145HP, the 2.0 liter I4 conversion works hard with a fully loaded (auto) westy towing a trailer, kayaks on top etc. These temps are not an issue for synthetic, however the oil pressure was dropping to the 1 Bar/1000 rpm range which is too low, and sometimes triggers the 2K oil warning after a long run..just for a few seconds until the oil cools a bit. I didn't want the oil cooler in the D-pillar for a few reasons. One is that my drivers side has AC hoses in it. The passenger side has the air box/muffler (now with acoustic internal insulation inside) that both muffles the K&N filter and also quiets the intake further using the stock snorkel (mounted in the passenger side engine air intake. However I shortened the air box and use it to block off the passenger side d-pillar so all air coming down the vent exits via the oil cooler now.

Here's the parts list from http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm

1 1 A25AN8 25 ROW-8AN 235mm OIL COOLER 217.50
1 1 SP1T SANDWICH PLATE 3/4 16 THERMO 89.50
2 2 BM810A 1/2 BSP x -8AN M/M -ALLOY 5.00
2 2 DS13/16 DOWTY SEAL 13/16" (1/2 BSP) 0.90
12.000 12.000 FBN-08 HOSE 1/2" SOCKETLESS BLACK 4.05/ft
4 4 P90-8 -8AN 90 DEG X 1/2" PUSH-ON 12.40
1 1 TN3/4-16 THREADED NIPPLE 3/4"-16 2.25

Total cost about 380 with six feet of hose. I added clamps to each push on fitting for extra security.

To make hose assembly easier, here's a few tips.

1. Use dish soap (not oil!) to lube the press on fitting. I've mounted it here in a vise, sitting on the garage floor so I could add my weight to the hose whilst sliding it on. I heated the hose with a heat gun for a few seconds, then just slid it on with a few wiggles. Very low effort this way.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

[img]http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=979885[/img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The almost finished hose:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Adding a lined stainless clamp. Note the inner lining. These came from the local Parker hydraulics shop:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The bulletproof finished hose:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the intake snorkel:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Installed on its rubber isolators, the snorkel is hidden from view from the outside. Here's the view looking down towards the bottom of the vent. The tube on the left connects my intake box to the stock snorkel. The original intake tube collapsed on the conversion's maiden voyage 8 years back creating quite a mysterious decimation of performance. I've cut a hole at the base of the passenger D-pillar which will direct air over the cooler.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's a view (don't mind the KROWN sprayed everywhere...it's messy) through the passenger tail light opening. The hole is about 4" x 12". The metal in this area is very thin, so very easy to manage via tin-snips or similar. I used a 3" hole saw (with carbide cutting surface) first to make things easier. The silver thing at left is the air box/muffer box slide forward. It's now lined with accoustic insulation retained by wire mesh, and wrapped with dynomat. The intake is very, very quiet Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The cooler kit uses a thermostatic mocal sandwich plate which stops oil cooling when the engine is cold. The cooler itself is a Mocal 25 row, 235mm cooler. These parts are all aluminum, so no rust. Note that I've removed the stock coolant/oil cooler as I don't want to worry about a failure mixing coolant and oil and destroying the engine. The coolant/transmission cooler has also been removed and replace with a smallcar air/oil version for the same reason. What you're seeing here is the accusump pre-oiler, then the Mocal sandwich plate stacked onto that.

Accusump:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the oil cooler behind the passenger rear tire in the fender cavity, perfectly sized for it. What you don't see here is the aluminum sheeting added to force cool air through the cooler. Also coming later is the alumumum plate that protects the cooler and vents the hot air to the rear of the vehicle where low pressure will "suck" the air from the cavity. Air flow is therefore from the high pressure area at the engine vent intake, exhausting to low pressure at the rear of the vehicle. At idle, the air flow will reverse via convection stack effect and importantly, keep 100% of the hot air isolated from the engine bay.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Without taking things apart, the mounting detail seems more complex than it it is. Both the accusump and the Mocal plate use a fitting which has female/male 3/4" thread which slides through the plate...allowing you to index it where ever required, before tightening. IF you were not using the Accusump and also removing the stock coolant/oil cooler you'd just need a short 3/4" nipple to screw into the block. The female/male mocal fitting at center threads to the nipple and you're good. If you were just adding the mocal plate to a stock configuration, then attaching only requires the 3/4" Mocal fitting. It attaches about as easy an oil filter.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Initial pressure tests etc. show cooling is very good, and pressure at idle is up with a hot engine (running inside the garage, 15 minutes at 3000 rpm). I'll post more pics of the final air shrouding etc. when complete.

Cheers,
Dennis.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice indeed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx Smile

Was even better until I drilled a hole in the cooler whilst fitting the tin tonight Shocked Scratch $217 smackers.

Darwinian bonehead maneuver award - self appointed. Crap.

The good news is that the cooler wasn't the $600 version that Eric at Batinc replaced for the racing team that did the same thing...ha.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been there Bro.

Love the pre oiler....very jealous.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can also confirm that a 1/8" hole in the oil system will drop about 1 liter of synthetic in about 30 seconds at 1000 rpm. Makes for excellent rust protection in the squirted areas...chuckles to self.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RGS Paul
Samba Member


Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Los Alamos, NM
RGS Paul is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you going to protect the cooler from all the road debris from the rear wheel?

Paul
_________________
'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3/16" plate aluminum. It encloses/protects the oil cooler 100% and forms the air box that directs oil cooler "exhaust" to the low pressure area at the rear of the vehicle. Otherwise the cooler would be destroyed pretty quick back there. More pics later.

.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the rear, the early tin work. The lighter aluminum sheet is just there for air flow, the 3/16" plate is there for protection from the rear wheel. You can see I've angled the oil cooler exhaust exit down a bit to make sure a low pressure zone will exist there at speed. We already know that the engine rear "air intake" vent louver has good positive pressure at speed...so I would predict very good flow thru the cooler, high to low pressure. You can also see why the oil cooler's heat output is completely isolated from the engine compartment.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 9260
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

denwood wrote:
Thx Smile

Was even better until I drilled a hole in the cooler whilst fitting the tin tonight Shocked Scratch $217 smackers.

Darwinian bonehead maneuver award - self appointed. Crap.

The good news is that the cooler wasn't the $600 version that Eric at Batinc replaced for the racing team that did the same thing...ha.


Oh man, I did this just the other night. I was mocking up a fan housing for my conversion from a mechanical fan clutch over to an electric two speed fan on my offbrand car. As I was drilling into the radiator bottom bracket, the bit caught and pulled the drill enough to grab a couple of coolant rows. Grrr. Since this was a spare core, I opted to peel away the fins, clean the surfaces and then apply a series of thin layers of JB Weld. I'm hoping this did the trick, and that the epoxy and aluminum expand and contract at roughly the same rate so it holds up over hundreds of heat cycles.
_________________
Casey--
Seven VW vans from T1 through T4 since 1985
Volkswagens powered by Volkswagen
Respect the marque
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought about fixing it, but given that it took about 30 seconds for 1 litre to exit at 1000 rpm, a leak at speed would have all 7 liters gone in 2 minutes or so. Now anyone who wants a Mocal to fix/play with..have I got a deal for you Smile
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 9260
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're dealing with potentially 6 bar and up, while my boo boo was only around 1 bar -- big difference. Your application is probably best left to a professional solder repair. Bummer. I like your install. I plan on installing this Volvo Turbo cooler and thermostat on my eventual mTDI conversion

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Casey--
Seven VW vans from T1 through T4 since 1985
Volkswagens powered by Volkswagen
Respect the marque
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
morymob
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
morymob is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U can get 'lo-temp' alum rods to repair alum,weld supply, mine from a show,get cleaner/rods, small tip for propane torch and practice on alum can first. Make u a drill stop from old brake, gas line, plast tubing etc, fine adj depth by moving drill bit, won't drill thru other stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A drill stop would be good for these projects yes. Truthfully this was a rookie error due to a lapse in attention, so I will pay my fine and consider it a reminder. I should have been doing the tin work with the cooler removed, or at least the tube over the drill bit stop.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
midmo81
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Columbia, Missouri
midmo81 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the rear fender cooler on my AC 81 Westy. Came with the bus from some PO install and all I had to do is replace the filter adapter, new hoses, new clamps, flush the gunk out of the coils, and fix the broken leaking exit fitting. There is a fan located behind it in the pillar.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It worked great in the 90+ degree heat this past summer. Sixty mph on the interstate with oil not over 220. Very Happy
_________________
1981 AC Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand this correctly, the rear tire dust/mud would end up on the cooler? Also, which way does the fan blow...into or from the d- pillar space?
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
midmo81
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Columbia, Missouri
midmo81 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Airflow is from inside to outside. Keeping this clean might be something to watch, but probably no worse than units mounted underneath. YMMV.

If I were doing this from scratch, probably would have taken easier location underneath somewhere. Since this was from some third or fourth PO way back, it seemed interesting for the work put into mounting the fan and coils this way. Out of the way when doing other fixing underneath. Like that ever happens.
_________________
1981 AC Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it isn't broke..don't fix it. After seeing what a 1/8 hole did to the Mocal, just make sure your cooler is well protected from a rock, failed tire etc. I'm also guessing you do zero driving in snow! That area is typically crusted up pretty good in winter. We do get a lot of snow here, and we do drive a fair bit on gravel in the summer..therefore the goal for my setup is a cooler that would be 100% protected in those scenarios.

Once I get the van back on the road I'm going to log some temps on the cooler to see how effective my flow predictions are. At 60mph the d-pillar intake vent drops off so I'm assuming the increasing low pressure at the rear of the van will compensate.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the replacement cooler in place and all buttoned up. Here's the rear fender area with the cooler air shroud/shield in place. Basically you can't tell it's there unless you peak under the rear bumper where you'll see the air exit for the cooler. Note the nice new Koni now installed too. The rears were easy, the front a nightmare as the shocks in there did not have the allen head..it's a 6mm flat which is incapable of holding the rod as you back off the top nut. Ack. Ended up drilling a hole all the way through the shock so I could put a bolt through the shock/tube assembly and hold it from spinning.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buspor63
Samba Member


Joined: February 17, 2005
Posts: 1099
Location: Knoxville,TN Where America stops for gas
buspor63 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I plan on installing this Volvo Turbo cooler and thermostat on my eventual mTDI conversion


Is the pictured sandwich plate from a Volvo Turbo car, perhaps one found in Pull A Part yards? If so, which model?
_________________
Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
denwood
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
denwood is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those pics of the used bits look like Volvo 740 turbo.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB