Official... Fake Meyers Manx items

[90volts]

Personally, I don't see this as anyone's problem other than Bruce. If someone wants to police ebay, Craigslist, car shows or anything else that is their own choice. In my opinion though, it isnt anyone's place to go after anyone other than maybe just informing them that it isnt a manx. Anything past that is Bruce's responsibility or that of his legal representation. I agree with Rick that if Bruce wants to get involved in this he should have his lawyer draft a letter and send it to eBay.

All types of products have been misrepresnted for, I would guess, thousands of years. The same advice still applies... Buyer beware. If a buyer doesn't do their research then its on them. If they feel they were taken, then they have a legal right to take the buyer to court. Let them do it. I don't believe we need a manx police. Or a safari police or clipperpolice or shalako police or imp police or anything else for that matter.

I would support a better certification procedure as was being discussed in the other thread. I was thinking about it a little bit. The idea was to include a picture of the buggy on the certificate. Someone brought up the idea of a watermark, hologram etc. I think that's a good idea. Just like a license, something hard to replicate. Someone will always try. But it needs to be made a little harder to do. Someone else mentioned that they didn't have a finished buggy and wouldn't care for a picture of a bunch of parts. But what is it that Bruce would be certifying? Just the body right? Running gear, accessories, wheels, etc do not not matter. So even in pieces the body could still be certified and photographed without the rest of the buggy. Changes to the build was also brought up. That's easy. If someone finished a build or changes paint color etc then they could resubmit for a new , replacement certicfication by sending in new photos and returning the prior certificate. This could even be possibly less expensive; the orginal could be kept on file and then a new one would not need to be done, Just an.update to the photo field or fields. I say fields as I think it would be a good idea to have a three picture panel. Front, rear and dash. This could cover the main assemblies that need to be original to be certified I am guessing. (Sorry, I have not looked into the present requirements).

And it would benefit everyone involved if a manx was sold for the seller to notify the buyer of the availability of certfication which they should then apply for, in their name. The certificate could be sent back to Bruce by the seller notifying him of a sale. When the new owner applies for certification everything will already be in order.

Yes, I know this could be gotten around, as anything can if someone is determined enough. But what do you think?

[kustoms]

[90volts]

Ok Tom, make sure that when you see someone downloading music illegally , or selling bootleg movies at the swap you call the producer and the cops and report them. That's just an illogical stance on your part. Any business is responsible for their own trademarks, copyrights etc. not the consumers. So how exactly is Meyers Manx inc. being robbed of money when someone sells a clone as a Manx? Is there some type of royalty that goes to Bruce upon sale of a real Manx that I am not aware of? Maybe you'd like to have a cup of coffee and rethink your statement.

And I have not suggested in any way to look away. What I said was inform the seller of their mistake and notify the copyright owner. I'm just trying to help the community. My personal opinion is that I couldn't care less if someone wants to put a Manx sticker on a clone.

[kustoms]

Some replys from my ad. The first two are from the guy who had the yellow buggy posted.

[/img]
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Tom Thompson
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[kustoms]

[realbluefoot]

[kustoms]

[joescoolcustoms]

[kustoms]

_________________
Google this.
"Bread and Circuses"

And wondering what the heck happen to my Samba post count?!?
Tom Thompson
Tijuana Kustoms Inc. (TM)
1-516-338-8746
www.tjkustoms.com

[monomanx]

So how exactly is Meyers Manx inc. being robbed of money when someone sells a clone as a Manx? Is there some type of royalty that goes to Bruce upon sale of a real Manx that I am not aware of?

I am chiming in on this mainly to answer the question you posed.

Bruce is not being robbed of money when a clone is sold
He does not receive a royalty for a real manx being sold.
The only way they make money is by selling kits, Meyers Manx items (patches, certifications, side pods etc.)

When someone creates something (tool roll for instance) that individual is using a Trademark illegally and if the item is not licensed by MM, then there is an issue. A good reference would be the NFL or VW back in the late 80s and 90s when they started nailing everybody for using their logo, likeness, name.

There are a number of issues at hand:
There is damage being done to the purchaser of a bogus manx (buyer Beware statement).
The general uneducated (as far as what a Manx is or is not) dune buggy population is being misinformed.
The value of a manx is reduced when stickers or certifications are misappropriated and applied to a non manx.


Should Bruce and Winnie chase these people? Legally, they have the right to but they are also running a business.

I personally feel that items that are fake should be called out for what they are (whether it be music, art, videos, clothing etc.). My interest is in the Meyers Manx so I feel obligated to pursue things that are named incorrectly.

90Volts, your argument is sound and I understand your point...and I have to ask not to cause more trouble but apropos all of this, did you ask Dave Deal (who was a friend of mine and has sadly passed away) for the rights to use his artwork (in whole or in part) as your avatar? Incidentally, that is a Meyers manx and the image was taken from a poster Dave had done for a big VW show in France put on in part by Jacky Morel...another Meyers Manx fan.

Dave (nor his estate)benefits from using his artwork which was undoubtedly scanned in at some point or posted to the internet (not by you but by someone). But the fact remains that if someone were to begin reproducing his art and stating that it was original, selling it for profit etc. that would be ethically wrong. In the case of the bogus manx, it is wrong to perpetrate (and perpetuate) fraud.

Respectfully submitted,
Chris

[Letterman7]

Yikes... this got real personal real fast. As a community, it's up to the individual to pursue notifying sellers and buyers of knock-offs or whatever at the individual's leisure. Personally, I can't make a crusade out of it because it's a losing battle. Any lawyer can draft a cease and desist letter for under $500. I've had it done. Your rates my vary by state, of course, but it's still should be accessible by the Meyers. The Manx club could also take up a donation to fund the same thing; as a club maybe having a legal fund may not be a bad idea.
"
Should Bruce and Winnie chase these people? Legally, they have the right to but they are also running a business."
And as a business they have a right to protect the brand. I have stuff ripped off every year, even though I have it protected by the appropriate language. But it's not worth me pursuing as it'll cost me more in litigation than the item is worth. Tom is most likely in the same situation with his creations. Running a business and securing your interests run hand in hand.

I applaud those guys who are taking an initiative to notify *bay and any other sites about infringements. But don't lose sight of the obvious - it really isn't your fight. What's going to happen when the Meyers' simply can't run the company anymore?

** Chris posted as I was writing!

[joescoolcustoms]

[jspbtown]

[Letterman7]

[kustoms]

[Glenn]

[kustoms]

[didget69]

I'll have a plate of malice with gravy on top, please!

Back to the seriousness... Bruce & Winnie (as I understand it) are not Internet/forum frequenters. As such, kind-hearted members of the Manx Club should have it in the best interest of the marque to work within reasonable boundaries to assist the Meyers' in keeping their trademark or brand property/identity.

I, too, have been through the illegal infringement of trademarks/patents in the past, having had my work borrowed illegally; it's not cheap to get it resolved. A simple email to Ebay to report the sale of questionable auction items is indeed a well-played move, as long as the Seller in question is offering something for sale that isn't theirs to sell or trade on/profit from - namely, the Meyers Manx name.

How would you feel if you paid a large sum for an 'original '69 Chevelle SS 396', only to later discover that you bought a dressed-up Malibu? Or substitute any marque in the equation - the outcome is still the same. GM didn't lose money on the aforementioned sale, but the Buyer got hosed. And the hosing of said Buyers is what I'm trying to prevent...

bryan
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[Glenn]

[kustoms]