LSD in front diff of a syncro?

boof1306 · Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: LSD in front diff of a syncro?

Has anyone ever attempted this? Would the break point be set to high for front wheel drive application? i.e. would the car track straight ahead hard? If it worked it would be alot easier then finding a locking diff in this end of the world! I know it would not be as good as a locker but it also would not lock your steering like a locker.

jsmitch11 · Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: ..

I would rather have Darryl at AA turn the front diff into a locker. This is what I will be doing shortly.
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1984 Vanagon Westfalia Syncro Hightop
1986 Vanagon Syncro(RIP)
1989 Vanagon Wolfsburg Whitestar Edition(RIP)

My Van syncro conversion/restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535730&highlight=black+diamond

boof1306 · Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject:

Yeh, I hear ya. I would like to go front locker too, the problem is getting the parts in Australia. The cheapest way to do it is have a whole locking diff imported from O/S. Even after that expense you might have a diff with worn ring and pinion. Lsd's are expensive too. It was just a thought that crossed my mind and I was wondering if any one had tried it. I think the lsd was a option on five speeds in europe. They are still available through vw classic. 1300 euro - ouch!

biffmalibu · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:23 am Post subject:

Sounds like a trip Laughing

Biff...
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Tenzing our 87 Syncro
SVX engine

"I drive a motherf@&kin Vanagon, it's the dopest f@&kin ride on the planet man"

boof1306 · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject:

You need to stay away from the brown acid man. Peace out.

Jon_slider · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject:

yes you can run LSD in the front diff of a Syncro

Alaric does. They are available from AATransaxle
http://www.aatransaxle.com/price_list.htm

they even offer Locking LSD
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

delta9007 · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject:

Do you think the drug dogs would find it if you put LSD in the front diff? Very Happy

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'89 2wd, 4spd, 2.1 Westfalia.

hans j · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject:

I think he's referring to a clutch type limited slip which will start to lock up when one wheel is off automatically. Once a torque biasing diff has one wheel in the air, it's just an open differential. I haven't seen a clutch type for vanagon application yet but haven't looked since I plan on the locking peloquin someday in the very distant future.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

boof1306 · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject:

Thanks Jon. Found the peloquin site. Lots of reading to do. Does he run it with or without locker? Alaric you out there, love to hear your thoughts.

joseph928 · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: LSD

I just need to put in my 2 cents . I have a rear locker I can't see a time that I ever needed a LSD in the front or a locker. We that is six of us did hells revenge this spring one of the hardest trails in Moab with a bunch of rock crawlers. And I made it out in one peace , so all I can say is why! Yes CV Bill had one and I did all he did. Love my syncro! Very Happy

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1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.

boof1306 · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject:

I think I came across pictures of that trip Joe, looked like a lot of fun. I agree that by adding a rear locker your offroad abilities increase and your chances of getting stuck decrease dramatically. By adding a front locker you have not achieved as cavinous a difference as going from no locker to rear locker. Eccentially you will always have at least one loaded driving wheel on the ground with a rear locker. In some terrain like swampy mud and big sand dunes I think a lsd would allow you to keep speed up and get over the obstical. I can see how on your recent trip this would not apply so much. Greg

IdahoDoug · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:07 am Post subject:

Moab is high traction offroading. In backcountry travel, you will rarely have the type of grippy four wheeling that trail offers, so a limited slip feature or front locker has much more benefit than expected.

Last weekend, I was on a fairly ordinary overland trail and while generally considered a challenging one, there were several spots we simply could not have crossed without a front locker. So, it was go home or have one.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

Jon_slider · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:50 am Post subject:

I agree a front locker, or even front LSD are great tools. otoh, dont underestimate the impact of airing down.

I found Red Betty can climb things with her front locker and 28 psi, that the SINKA could not climb with no front locker and 30psi.

BUT, when we dropped to 20 psi, the front locker was not needed.

here is a 1.8T powered SINKA with, rear locker and solid shaft, no front locker, inflated to 30psi

Link

he later climbed the obstacle with no problem at 20psi

airing down got the SINKA over that obstacle

Here is Betty, she does have a front locker. When inflated to 28psi, she needed speed, and the front locker

Link

After dropping to 20 psi, things got much easier

Link

Moral of the story, airing down made a BIGGER difference in overcoming the obstacle, than having a front locker, in this situation.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

IdahoDoug · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject:

Yep - good call on air pressure. We were at 23psi and weighed 5800lbs and still barely avoided the dreaded strap!! Heh....
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

boof1306 · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:10 am Post subject:

23 psi is still up there. I have had cause to go down as low as 12 psi temporarly to get out of a bind. You must be very careful at these low pressures not to knock the tyre off the bead.

Jon_slider · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:42 am Post subject:

> I have had cause to go down as low as 12 psi temporarly to get out of a bind.

total agreement. Though I wont run trail below 20psi, there have been 3 occasions where 12 psi got me out after I had gotten stuck in deep mud, sorry no picture, deep silt,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

and sand (in this wet sand video, Im in 2wd).

Link

In all 3 cases the wheels had dug down below axle depth and the van was resting on the undercarriage, thanks to having both front and rear lockers, and a coupled solid shaft, no Viscous Coupling.

and fwiw, I found it easier not to get stuck in sand, with an open diff, than running locked axles.. ymmv
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco


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