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I'll be darned, a gas leak.
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SCM
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

TBH, I'll admit I used to think a lot of the "change your fuel lines" sentiment was a bit paranoid. I was wrong.

This Friday I started the van for the first time in a couple months and planned to run some errands. I did a quick loop around the block and parked it in the driveway. I was going to let it idle while I ran into the house to get something. My first thought was, "man, the way little kids are attracted to the thing am I risking one of the neighbors climbing in?". Of course not, I'll be gone exactly one minute and I can see that no one is outside other than me.

I was just about to walk into my backyard when I remembered reading a couple accounts of people in a similar situation who returned to find a burst coolant hose or oil cooler o-ring and a fried engine. "Hmmm. I should at least give a quick look/sniff". "Oh, wow, what's THAT puddle!".

Sure enough, a very steady drip of gas had formed a puddle under the van. Luckily I turned it off before anything had really warmed up.

The leak was coming from the engine bay bulkhead area. I run a solid stretch of fuel line through a grommet in the bulkhead so I expected to see that hose and grommet sliced through, although I do inspect it regularly.

It turns out that the leak is coming from the connection between the hard plastic line and the rubber fuel hose - which are joined together with an Oetiker clamp. It's as if the clamp had become loose but I don't think that's possible. Either the hard line or the rubber hose has somehow become compromised.

I already planned to replace my fuel injectors and filter next month so all new fuel lines just means some more shopping and little bit more time.

It's been a couple years since I had to do any real maintenance to the van so I suppose I'm due.
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

It's not just Vanagons, it's any old car. RIP.

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

Fuel hose dries cracks and shrinks.

On the 90 that I'm freshening up, the fuel hoses attached to the fuel tank were original.
Old hard and dry, I pulled off the return hose from the fuel tank with the clamp still on.

Dave
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campism
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

SCM wrote:

It turns out that the leak is coming from the connection between the hard plastic line and the rubber fuel hose - which are joined together with an Oetiker clamp. It's as if the clamp had become loose but I don't think that's possible. Either the hard line or the rubber hose has somehow become compromised.

That's where mine was leaking, forward of the firewall and where the hard plastic line meets the rubber hose and it was dripping onto the starter. I double-clamped the new hose.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

4Gears4Tires wrote:
It's not just Vanagons, it's any old car. RIP.

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It is not just old cars, where we winter in Arizona there are burn scars on the pavement every mile or two from cars burning up. On the 12 mile section of AZ 68 I count 13 fire scars.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

Old gasoline powered cars.
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hardway
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

I have seen that exact failure many times over the years. The hose is just slipped over the smooth plastic tube. Eventually the pressure and aging rubber allow the hose to creep off of the end of the tube. After the first time I saw it I routinely look at that connection on every Vanagon I see. There is often a witness mark, a clean part of the tube that used to be covered with hose.

My point is that although it might seem to happen suddenly it actually occurs gradually over a very long period of time. What I do is when I see this happening is that I replace that section of hose. I use a lubricant and push as long a piece of hose over the tube as possible. That way it has to creep further to come off. You can double clamp it or use those nifty blue spring clamps that came on the later Vanagon fuel hoses. Constant tension spring clamps are a better solution than worm or screw drive band clamps or even the Oetiker style clamps.

I seem to remember that OutWesty put more permanent bullet proof fittings on his plastic tubes. You could also replace the polyamide tubing and use some other Cohline fittings for it. Belmetric has that type of stuff. But I figure that if you are aware of the problematic joint and push the hose on further when you replace the hose every 10 or 15 years that you will likely avoid that calamity.
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

I have had more than one gas leak caused by some rodent chewing through a hose. Always frustrating because it’s not related to lack of maintenance.
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tjet Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

Glad you listened to your vehicle. The main difference is that mechanic's (or most samba members here) don't ignore smells, sounds, or other odd things.

Most (non-car) people ignore everything until it catches on fire or whatever. I remember working on an older BMW. The customer wanted the oil change special, but also complained of a burning smell and engine noise while driving. I was getting ready to have a look at it, but I noticed the oil pressure light did not come on with the key on. When I looked closer, I noticed black electrical tape covering the light. I didn't even bother starting it at that point. I told the service writter about what I found. The customer called back and said they got tired of seeing that red light on.

I think they made the customer sign something before we moved it. We gave him an estimate on and engine and he got his car and ran away.

I'm sure the story at the country club was "...so I took my car in for an oil change, but they wanted to replace the engine. The nerve"

We had a lot of customers like that
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
4Gears4Tires wrote:
It's not just Vanagons, it's any old car. RIP.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is not just old cars, where we winter in Arizona there are burn scars on the pavement every mile or two from cars burning up. On the 12 mile section of AZ 68 I count 13 fire scars.


Exactly. I've always wondered if Vanagons burn at a higher rate than other cars. My guess maybe but they're definitely not the only ones...

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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

this just reinforces the fact why i fought a roll of NiCopp in my build

you can barely see them (sorry for the crappy pic) i still need to trim and barb the ends

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9559752#9559752

i'm not going to lie...it was an EPIC pain in the ass to route these even with the engine/trans out but i think the piece of mind was worth it
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

jimf909 wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
4Gears4Tires wrote:
It's not just Vanagons, it's any old car. RIP.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is not just old cars, where we winter in Arizona there are burn scars on the pavement every mile or two from cars burning up. On the 12 mile section of AZ 68 I count 13 fire scars.


Exactly. I've always wondered if Vanagons burn at a higher rate than other cars. My guess maybe but they're definitely not the only ones...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm a police and fire dispatcher and we get car fires ALL THE TIME... luckily no Vanagons on my watch yet (knock on wood).
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: I'll be darned, a gas leak. Reply with quote

That e30 would have been saved today. The fire truck in the background (on their lunch break) came over and put the fire out. The hood latch cable went and they used a huge crowbar to bend the hood up to confirm the fire was out. The fire was entirely contained to the engine bay. Everything mechanical (all the expensive AWD bits) was fine, everything plastic/electrical needed to be replaced. New hood and fenders too. This could have been done with a bit of time and any donor e30, however at this time even AWD e30s were just not expensive enough to do this level of repair on. That e30 was parted out, I kept the suspension. Engine, trans, wheels, etc all went to other e30s.

Nothing like first hand experience to learn an important lesson.

Keeping the fire contained to the engine bay is one of the reasons I bought a metal engine cover for my van. Fiberglass burns, that is not a great way to contain an engine fire. The metal cover is about twice as heavy though. But if it stays in the engine bay the rest of van has a better chance of being saved.
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