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dasvanman
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2017
Posts: 19
Location: CA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:16 pm Post subject: Starter gear gridinding off |
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Hi there all, did a search but couldnt find anyone with a similar issue.
I have a recently acquired 2.1 that is running wonderfully aside from a recent issue im hoping you all may have some insight on.
87 2.1 AUTO
Upon turning the key the van makes a loud grinding noise, it was like this when I bought it, the PO told me they think its the flywheel and that they had the gear replaced a bit ago, when I went to pick up the van, it started up 3 times (with a jump) while making the grinding noise, but started regardless.
I drove it home about 2 hours with no issues and now when I go to start, hard spinning noise, and no start at all. I tried turning the engine by hand to check out if it was the flywheel teeth but still nothing, and honestly upon visual inspection they dont look that bad. I pulled the starter and noticed that the very end of the starter gear teeth are completely sheared off/warn down.
Heres a picture
Upon removal, I also noticed that the large gauge wire going to the solenoid is pretty warn and showing some corrosion at a split, it will be replaced either way, but is it possible that a weak electrical connection could be the culprit? Possibly not fully engaging the solenoid or something of that sort?
Does anyone have any ideas as to what it may be or anything else I should look for?
I have the starter out, I am going to take it to be tested just to be sure that isnt it, but would like to exhaust other possibilities before going with the big money option which is new flywheel and starter. |
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Gruppe B
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Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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If a flywheel ring gear is damaged it will destroy the starter gear in short order.
You will need replace both the items or will be doing the job again shortly. |
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Chainsaw
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Joined: August 07, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Issaquah Washington
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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That "gear" has a taper to it normally so that really isnt all that bad. Certainly not ideal but not the end of the world. The bendix is hanging up which is keeping said gear front jumping forward and reliably engaging the flywheel teeth, replace the stater, Im sure the flywheel is perfectly serviceable.
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89 Westy. 2wd. Manual. |
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buildyourown
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Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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Mine does this about once every 20th start. You need to file a bevel on the leading edge of every tooth. This will allow the gears to mesh as the solenoid engages.
You may need to give your flywheel some love too. Take a peek through the hole the starter mounts to and feel for burrs on the gear |
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Butcher
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Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| Chainsaw wrote: |
| That "gear" has a taper to it normally so that really isnt all that bad. |
Surely you jest. Google search some pictures of a new starter and you will find what a good gear looks like. That gear is hammered, as is NFG.
When you are replacing the ring gear, it would be advisable to replace the starter too [or at least the starter drive, if you can find one]. Highly unlikely, but maybe the gear is not fully engaging before the starter cranks over.
Yeah, that gear is definitely seen better days. Hopefully, it did not ruin the ring gear. |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9936
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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I would replace the whole starter. While it is out, use a small mirror and a flashlight to inspect the teeth of the ring gear. Have someone rotate the engine while looking, so you can see all the teeth. You should expect to see 2 areas with more "wear" than the rest of the gear. These wear areas will be spaced 180 degrees apart. Given the high cost of doing anything about the ring gear, unless it has major damage I'd replace just the starter and hope for the best after at least looking at the ring gear.
Mark |
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Chainsaw
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Issaquah Washington
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| Butcher wrote: |
| Chainsaw wrote: |
| That "gear" has a taper to it normally so that really isnt all that bad. |
Surely you jest. Google search some pictures of a new starter and you will find what a good gear looks like. That gear is hammered, as is NFG.
When you are replacing the ring gear, it would be advisable to replace the starter too [or at least the starter drive, if you can find one]. Highly unlikely, but maybe the gear is not fully engaging before the starter cranks over.
Yeah, that gear is definitely seen better days. Hopefully, it did not ruin the ring gear. |
Ive replaced DOZENS of starters, 95% of them have a bevel on the end of the gear. Certainly possible that one didn't.
Crazyvwvanman is on point. Do a quick look, unless the ring gear is totally boned let it ride.
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89 Westy. 2wd. Manual. |
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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If you have convinced yourself that the ring gear is OK, then just replace the bendix drive gear or the entire starter, you can do it either way.
However, the ring gear is important to be dead nuts on, or the bendix drive will look the same way again in short order.
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T.K. |
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Butcher
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Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| Chainsaw wrote: |
Ive replaced DOZENS of starters, 95% of them have a bevel on the end of the gear. Certainly possible that one didn't.
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All the gears are beveled, yes, we agree on that. Take a look at that gear and check a new one, there is substantial wear on that one.
The way a starter works is that is should not spin until the gear is engaged. So with that much wear, I suspect the gear is not engaging properly, the starter is not spaced right [VW does not use shims so that is most likely not it], or the ring gear is so far damaged, it keeps ruining the starter.
If you have replaced DOZENS of starters, then that's good, the gear was worn out. I've removed/seen hundreds/thousands of starters and good starters are not as bad as that one. |
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Chainsaw
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Issaquah Washington
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| Butcher wrote: |
| Chainsaw wrote: |
Ive replaced DOZENS of starters, 95% of them have a bevel on the end of the gear. Certainly possible that one didn't.
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All the gears are beveled, yes, we agree on that. Take a look at that gear and check a new one, there is substantial wear on that one.
The way a starter works is that is should not spin until the gear is engaged. So with that much wear, I suspect the gear is not engaging properly, the starter is not spaced right [VW does not use shims so that is most likely not it], or the ring gear is so far damaged, it keeps ruining the starter.
If you have replaced DOZENS of starters, then that's good, the gear was worn out. I've removed/seen hundreds/thousands of starters and good starters are not as bad as that one. |
Im not disagreeing with you, nor did I say that stater was good to go. 
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89 Westy. 2wd. Manual. |
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Butcher
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Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| Sorry, reading is not my specialty. I thought you indicated it was good to go. |
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syncrogreg
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Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17153
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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I can check ETKA tomorrow, but I don’t recall ever seeing a ring as a spare vw part.
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Franklinstower
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Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| I can check ETKA tomorrow, but I don’t recall ever seeing a ring as a spare vw part. |
Correct, I don't see the Ring gear as a separate part number
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50350
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Starter gear gridinding off |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Old thread but that starter shown is for an automatic.
The ring gears are welded to the torque convertor.
Dave |
I guess it's possible to replace the ring gear on the TC, but I have never heard of anyone doing it.
(the PO told me they think its the flywheel and that they had the gear replaced a bit ago) Don't know if its the ring gear that was replaced or the gear on the starter drive? |
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