Help! GW/H&R lift springs and Burley UCA's

[adv rider]

I searched and could not find what i needed,so here goes: W ith my recent weekender purchase and the need to use a motorcycle carrier on back to go riding. it was recommended to get the gw lift springs and burly upper control arms and koni shocks. as you know not a cheap set-up. Well i scraped together the $ and finally got the stuff installed by the shop. Well i only drove about 40 miles today-And i HATE the ride! It feels like its rigid. and going to make the van fall apart,when i hit any type of bump/pothole. i can hardly make it sway/move when i stand on rear bumper or in slider opening. Is this normal? I must mention the springs were used gw/h&r lift springs and the rest was new. shocks set to #3 rear #2 front. It still needs alignment but i can't imagine that causing it to be so stiff. Is the weekender to light and the springs for full camper? I am out of money and don't know what to do. I would just change the springs back, but i am not sure if i can use the lift control arms with stock height. i s there a better spring that i should have used? Thanks for the help
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86' Wolfsburg weekender 2.1, 4spd, , merian brown

[SpeedoJosh]

How does it feel with the bike on there?
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87 Westfalia 2wd
Bostig Conversion
Build thread >> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529709&highlight=

[madspaniard]

The Burley arms have nothing to do with that. What springs and shocks did you have before? If they were the original stock ones they were probably tired, especially the shocks, so you were used to a soft ride.

You will probably have to do some experimenting with the Koni adjustments. They don't have adjustment numbers, more like turns in or out for soft/hard rebound.

Samba member "1621" has the same GoWesty springs/Koni shocks setup. Contact him to find out how he adjusted his Konis and whether his van rides stiff too.
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali

[insyncro]

Possibly you were sold prototype springs
There was a set in the classifieds not too long ago.
I have a set of pre production springs from GW that are night and day different from what is available on the website.
They are not using H&R as a manufacturer any long and have changed the rates a bit as well.
Most complain the GW springs are too mushy...something is up.

[1621]

First off, the springs are a fair bit stiffer than the stock springs - and if you're replacing tired shocks at the same time you're probably noticing a significant difference over the previous set-up.

That said, are your new shocks bottoming out over bumps and dips? You would know since you'll feel and hear a bang every time you max out that shock, typically the fronts. In this instance, you might consider making some shock extensions in order to give you a couple inches more droop. I found this necessary with the GW/Konis. I copied a design employed by TristarEric on this forum that was cheap and easy to reproduce. Very effective too.

Do you have aftermarket sway bars? The reason I ask is because I mistakenly over-tightened the end links on my front and rear sway bars, effectively increasing the spring rate by requiring both springs to work when a single wheel encountered a bump or dip. That made the ride nearly unbearable until I worked out the issue. The nuts on the end links on aftermarket bars should only be a shade over finger tight. I can't recall if the stock links even allow for that, but I thought I'd ask.

I really know nothing about the Burley arms. I didn't use them, nor have I any experience nor ridden in a van with them. Though if I remember correctly, his arms use polyurethane bushings, no? Occasionally users report increased road feel and vibrations with poly bushings. This has not been my experience on other vehicles, but I also haven't used them with the Vanagon.

Since they're used, check the springs for damage. Check to see that the coils aren't collapsed on one another, and look for defects or anything unusual. Without knowing more about the details it's hard to say. And while the alignment isn't likely to be the root of the issue, I'd have it done in order to rule that out as a possibility.

I do know that it is possible to gain a nice firm (not harsh) ride that doesn't leave you wallowing at every turn and stop with this set-up. Don't get discouraged, just know it will take some tuning and a few minor adjustments before you hit that sweet spot. When you do get it dialed in, you'll be glad you made the investment.
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'85 Westy

[Christopher Schimke]

I would be willing to bet that the suspension is "topped out". In other words, you have no more downward travel of the wheel. The suspension is completely bound up. I have had several customers with this same issue and it's always worse with the Koni shocks, since they are slightly shorter than stock. And it's always worse on the lightweight vans.

If my hunch is correct, and assuming you keep the GW springs, the only solution is to run longer shocks or upper shock shaft extensions.

If you want help making it right, send me an email.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[j_dirge]

[adv rider]

Thanks for all the response's ,i will try to answer all:I don't believe it is bottoming out-it's not hardly moving at all. Unless i hit a speed bump at speed, then it rebound so fast it makes a clunk. Since i just purchased van- i don't know of springs,but it had new meyle shocks,uca bushings,ball joints. I plan to align,but i have an assortment of bushings from chris that i need to install first. . i only would on avg. use the motorcycle carrier 1-2 a month, Its definately not a nice ride,feels/sounds like the windows a going to break when you hit bumps/potholes. Chris-yes i agree that i think its topped out possibbly,and i had asked the shop before install about this,because i had read about it.
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86' Wolfsburg weekender 2.1, 4spd, , merian brown

[insyncro]

A clunk....
I have had two 2wd vans through my shop that had GW springs incorrectly installed and not seated in the upper spring rubber, thus maxing the suspension that much more than it should be. They would both clunk.
By using very heavy duty spring compressors, they can be installed with room to adjust there position to seat in both the upper and lower perches properly.

Earlier versions of fancy aftermarket UCAs have been known to make contact with the upper wheel well on full extension, also making a clunk.
Marks on the sheet metal and or on the arms themselves are visible.
My understanding is that the latest and greatest versions do not do this.

Just an idea.

[j_dirge]

[presslab]

I too carry the dirt bike on the back with air bags:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/484138.jpg

The air bags allow me to adjust the ride when I load the bike up. I have no springs at all in the rear.

Anyway it does sound like your're topped out. Can you measure your fender lip to hub center distance on the four corners? Do this with the tires on the ground, and then do it again after you jack the tire up so it's off the ground. Be sure to jack the van up on the body and not under the control arm.

I suspect doing that will show you where your problem is.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti

[adv rider]

I found the source of a noise today-drivers side ball joint is coming apart. almost positive it wasn't like that immediately after uca/spring install,but ?
New MOOGS going in both sides. Talked to Chris and figured it would be wise to extend shocks,or go back to stock height. I like the lifted look,but have no more$$ to spend to make it work.After new ball joint install, I will measure ride height and check shock extension. Picking up monday morn.-hopefully these last long enough to figure out how to get the work done to fix it
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86' Wolfsburg weekender 2.1, 4spd, , merian brown

[euro911]

[Phishman068]

I would ask the shop owner how he decieved you by saying "he has this setup" on his syncro.
You cannot put Koni's on a syncro, and the springs for a syncro are not only different, they're different rates.

So at best, he probably has Old Man Emu shocks and Gowesty springs, but the springs are dramatically different, and the shocks aren't even the same type.

[adv rider]

[presslab]

[adv rider]

OH and i almost forgot Chris @ T3 is amazingly helpful, every shop should have his customer service skills. Talked to me about my issues like i had just spent a ton of dough with him-which i didn't. THANKS Chris!!
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86' Wolfsburg weekender 2.1, 4spd, , merian brown

[j_dirge]

[K58]

Return all that high priced crap and get a pair of air shocks with an on board compressor. Install yourself and be done.
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Westy HID Projector Retrofit

[adv rider]