65 type 34 rebuild, with 64 donor car

[esde]

So, here are some pics of the beginning of this. I've had this 34 for too long already, my client really wants me to make some progress on it.

it looked ok from 50 feet, and even not terrible up close, but we all knew there had been extensive bodywork

It had been wrecked pretty good on this corner

And the rockers had been skinned over to hold the rust in, and the rear wheel arch was missing. And after grinding off the half inch of bondo, the solid metal was dented and dinged to hell

There's more, but halloween is over so I'll put the scary pictures away. The rear end was deemed beyond repair, and progress stopped while I waited for a donor rear clip to show up. Low and behold, less than 20 minutes up I95 from my house:

And the nose is STRAIGHT!

Though some ding dong sawzalled a giant hole for some massive turn signals..

The heater channels have been repaired on the outside

but the floors seem pretty tight except for some surface rust, and a thin spot in the back. The rear is about as good as you can hope for, all solid, some wavy metal that is mostly hidden by the bumper. Rear wheel arches are 100%. Most importantly, Tim, the owner is happy again. Of course, the rear bumper isn't correct

The car had a type4 mated to an auto, with a rear engine bar added, you can se the rubber supports for the hangers here

I'm going to return it to wide 5 wheels with the swing axle, and am considering installing the type 4 with some sort of dual carbs. The 1500 for the 65 is in seized chunks, and the type 4 would make for a nice driver. Whoever did the work never got the wiring finished based on what I found, so I'm hoping that the engine was worth the work that they DID do, which was quite a lot..

Funny thing is, there are quite a few 34s here in Philadelphia. There are 2 in storage half a mile away. I had "heard about" 2 somewhere over in NJ, but car people can be so secretive about things, even cars they intend to do nothing with, and they just sit. These 2 sat for too long, and got sold off somehow, this is one of them. I'm told the other was maybe the donor for this, and was rough. A fellow I met recently picked this up, and parted some of it, and I took the shell to complete the 65 project. At this point, I'm leaning towards putting this body on the 65 pan, and changing the dash to keep the 65 larger speedometer. The doors and decklids for the 65 are in great shape, the interior can be made passable, so we'll see how things progress. All glass is safely stored with new rubber, that is in a box that appears to have been shipped from Tailand?!
the thread I started that has chassis #s for each car here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534251
in case you cared.
I'll add pics after I get it torn down and ready to be blasted. Will be nice to see it almost all bare;)
SD

[Deluxe Lowlight Ghia]

make sure you use that sunroof clip off the yellow car
_________________
These vws are cool but the people who own them are far more valuable. Keep friends close they can be taken away overnight.
57 ghia
59 patina ghia
61 patina Ghia
71 bus
73 super beetle
74 thing
75 half bug

[Bobnotch]

Sounds like a good plan. Pick the best parts you have, and use them to make 1 good car. I'd also concider building a correct T-3 engine, as you'll probably spend a bunch of time trying to get the t-4 to work right, plus it'll look more correct in the car. A T-3 engine works very well in these cars.

It does look like you've got a ton of work to do. I'm only going off of my own resto, and John Kanter's resto that he's been doing. Just keep in mind these cars hide their rust very well, and a good portion of them have been hit in 1 area or another, then repaired (sometimes good, and other times poorly). I got lucky with my own car, in that it was mostly complete, and came with a 1/2 quarter to fix some major crash damage. But, the replacement front clip had been smacked pretty hard, and bondoed up (poorly) without any attempt at fixing the dent (the PO's PO of it just punched holes in it (28 of them), and slicked it). However, the interior was shot from sitting in a field for 25+ years.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[Lee Hedges]

From the pics of the 1964 donor it appears to have already been pan-swapped with a late-model T3 with Automatic. Is the 1965 chassis original and worth saving/using for the restoration? Floorpans can be had from Gerson. And the electric sunroof 1964 body can easily be mounted to the 1965 chassis (if useable).

Thanks for sharing your project!
Let me know if you need help finding parts or advice that you can't find on theSamba.


LEE HEDGES
[email protected]

[esde]

Lee, thanks for the info. About the vin #, I'm sure I got it correct, checked the body and the rear tunnel for both. I'll take a pic, so we can all guess how it ended up the way it did. I have to use the 65 pan, as it's the only one there is a title for, and, it is only a year off from the better yellow body. At least the car will be closer to original than it is now.. the down side is that without the original body, some of the sentimental value is lost. Oh well, it will be a much nicer car when done.

Whoever bought the car in the 90's did the pan swap, I'm guessing that there is a rusty 68 body somewhere with wide five wheels and a swing axle transmission. The one thing I didn't get with the yellow car is the speedometer, I didn't realize that the earlier car had a smaller diameter speedo. About the pans, is the type 34 pan the same as a fastback or notchback, or specific to the 34? The gerson panels are nice, though I'm hopeful that these will clean up and maybe only need the rear repair sections. Most of the rust is in the lowest areas where water pools. I'll be working on them this weekend and will post up some more pictures. SD

[Lee Hedges]

The small speedo was fitted to the 1962 to the early-1965 T34s. In the early-1965 timeframe the speedo diameter was enlarged and the cigar lighter was raised vertically two inches or so. Find one of the smaller speedos for 1964 is not too difficult but you'll need to look for these features: 100mph gauge, amber needle (if you're going with a 1964) or white needle (if you're going with an early-1965), and bronze center dial & inner round design.

The floorpan of the T34 is the same as the other same-year T3s with the exception of the seat rails (welded to the floorpan in T34s vs welded to the sides in T3s) and the rear seat metal frame that is welded to the chassis. There's no difference between the 1964 & 1965 chassis except that the 1964 hub cap logos are painted black. If all you need is partial rear floor pan parts then you can buy ISP West's rear panel sections for $75. Check out Thom Fitzpatrick's 1962 floorpan resto for pics & info on how he used 'em.

If you're going to use the 1965 chassis then I'd suggest removing the 1965 body VIN plate (spare tire well right-side area) and adding it to the 1964 body. That was your VIN plate numbers will match for registration purposes to your title. If you're missing the front aluminum VIN plate, we have a source for new ones that can be stamped with any VIN # you want.

Send me pics and I'll help you evaluate the T34s and have a much better idea of what you're planning. Email to [email protected] or call 760 845 8447 (San Diego CA) if you need instant answers.

[esde]

After cleaning out both cars, and boxing up lenses, bezels, hinges, and everything that could get lost, I had some time to study the VIN #s on the 64.
The tag on the front inner fender is original from what I can tell and the number is 0291215. The tunnel # is the same, so I start scraping around it. The VIN section has been welded into the later auto tunnel, so that the seams fall almost right under where the tarboard edges are. If I wasn't looking for it, I might have never noticed. This pan will be headed to the scrap heap after I plasma cut the floor sections out. The rear subframe is the same as any type 3 IRS right? That's the only part that might be worth saving for something right?

[Bobnotch]

[esde]

here's the vin under the tunnel.

I broke loose most of the bolts needed to separate the pan from the body, beam, and rear today. Bit of a bear, but they're loose, or soaking. Here's the drivers door hinge area on the clients 65. Note the vertical tear where it was crashed and crunched, and pulled apart. There's a pound of washers spacing all of the hinges and catches, and the door gaps are still all over the place. This is one of the reasons I'm not fixing this body.

Here's the 64 in front, and the 65 in the back. I honestly bet we ground 15 pounds of filler off of the 65. And there's still more there..

The dash of the 64. We are probably moving the dash from the 65, as we are taking it's wiring harness and speedometer, and want it to match the title year.

The previous owner half installed the later steering column, complete with a bundle of wire that goes everywhere for the fuel injection system.

These front turn signals are 34 only right? I seem to be missing one housing, and have one slightly broken lens. But, it'll be a while before I'm worried about that stuff, right?

[gregson1]

It looks like someone hacked out the two front turn signal holes on the '64 to mount the '72-'74 model year Type 14 Karmann Ghia front turn signal housings. You probably need both front turn signal housings and lenses and will need to close up those ugly holes a bit and reshape the lower front fenders to match the curvature of the real Type 34 front turn signal housings.

It's never too early to start worrying about Type 34 parts. Even after 8 years of hunting I'm still looking for better examples for some things. Your client's car has a sunroof and you need to figure out what's missing right now.

The wiring harness in the '64 will have some additional wiring to support the electric sunroof motor. If you decide you need a new wiring harness, let me know ASAP because we are considering getting some more kits made.

It looks like you have most of the raw materials to create at least one good car. Please don't throw anything away because parts are scarce and sometimes reconditioning these parts is the only way to go.

[Bobnotch]

[esde]

How rare is the sunroof? I've gotten a lot of emails about it. The wiring is all in the body, intact. I have the switch in a safe place
SD

[gregson1]

Not impossibly rare...maybe more like 'rather damn unusual'. ~15% or less of total production were sunroof cars, I think. I have a sunroof clip and a bunch of spare parts, much of which is new or NOS, so for me it's business as usual. Now if I can only find someone that can install the whole mess into my car without destroying it, then I'd be all set...

Anyway, if you are patient and wait for it, you can score some nice stuff. But It sounds like you don't have that luxury because this car is for a client. Scour ebay and you can find some Porsche 356 sunroof stuff that can be made to work on the Type 34...but then that stuff's rather damn unusual, as well.

You mentioned pulling wiring out of one car to use in another. Good luck with that because the outer casing of the wiring harness goes rock hard, essentially locking it into place at the 'dog-leg' horizontal rocker wiring tube to vertical hinge pillar wiring tube transition. You may get lucky with some heat in there to help get things moving, but I sure didn't. Twice. It will be best to just fix what you have by splicing wiring. You may find that's it's not too bad off.

As many others can attest, the car's great fun and you might never pass another on the road. Once done, and done right, your customer's in for a treat.

[ataraxia]

You can find T34 parts on German eBay but they're not cheap...

[esde]

We'll see about the sunroof. The owner is coming over tomorrow night to go over everything, so we can agree on schedule and what gets what. I did finish unbolting the body from the pan and get it broken loose. It is remarkably solid. The real rust is in the heater channels, and at that, just the outer, and the inner wall that drops down over the outer edge of the floor pan. The door sills and inner is solid. Every bolt came loose easily. So, time to get it up on stands!
Who makes these parts? I messaged the member that posted these pics, but no response

I don't even need all of these.

Not too complicated if I have to make them, but faster to source them.
Thanks, SD

[esde]

No pics till I get better light in the shop, and the shell off of the body. But, a few discoveries. The 34 was dropped onto the auto pan quite some time ago, probably in the early 90's, based on some rumors I've heard. It had some body damage fixed, and an extensive respray. I can tell it was after the pan swap as there is yellow overspray on the floor and cobbled together seat brackets. The time line for the pan swap is based on one person's recollection of where it was and when, and registration records. Nice to have friends w access to records The type 4 motor was swapped in by the last owner, and never fully sorted to run, or run correctly. So, at the present, I am using the spine of the auto pan to ferry the car around while I work on the body. Trying to figure out what to do with the 65 body, I need to get it off of the pan so work can start on that. Aside from the dash, and the front corners where the turn signals are, I'm afraid I might have no use for most of it. Luckily the doors, front and rear lids are stripped and primed, ready for the new body.
The body would almost be a fun race car project, it certainly looks good enough to be hauling ass down a track somewhere.. Hmmm

[esde]

So, been a while, I'll have to get some pics up soon. I got the front of the car mostly stripped. There is some filler, but mostly down low, and right on the nose. for the most part, it will finish nicely. Some small bits of rust where the headlight buckets are welded into the front skin, same as on the other car, so I imagine it's just a poorly finished part. The inside of the trunk area has been coated with brush on roof coating. I really, really hate whoever did that right about now, but it is slowly coming off. The spray "freeze" then sandblasting seems to work for it, as well as the undercoating. I've got the rockers/ channels stripped, and the hinge pillars. Before I go any further I should remove hte aluminum trim on the windshield A pillars, but have no idea how to go about it. Any pointers? Pics to come soon..

[Lee Hedges]

The aluminum L-shaped trims that cover the A-pillars are nailed-in with upholstery tacks. Takes some effort to get underneath the nails to pull them out without destroying the delicate aluminum. But if you do, this area is hidden underneath the rubber seals.

Good luck & share more pics.

[esde]

Thanks Lee. I'll practice getting them off of the 65, and then the 62. Speaking of the 65, Really the only straight part of the car that I'm not using is the roof with front and rear pillars. I'll list it here, but please pass it on to anyone that might need the parts. More sandblasting tomorrow, and I'll take the camera this time.

[Bobnotch]