65 type 34 rebuild, with 64 donor car

[esde]

Here's some pics. I'll add details later, too beat from blasting. Tedious, shitty work. The tar in the front trunk area ate 200 lbs of sand, my shop lot looks like a beach. Floor pans are going to come out great, and the only bad rot that wasn't known is the cowl below the windshield. I have a haze of the og paint in many places, as I didn't want to linger with the blaster. Too much time, especially when the metal is close to bare and panels start to warp.

[Lee Hedges]

That looks really good. Just the pin holes at the base of the headlight rims which should be easy to manage. I don't see too much major damage to repair.

[esde]

Yeah, it's soooo much better than the other car. I need to find a neighborhood kid who wants a few bucks and put him to work scraping undercoating off. Has anyone every successfully removed the wiring harness in one piece? This one is a bit hacked, but it appears that the drivers hinge pillar was built around it so I may be stuck. I have to figure it out before I get going on the driver side heater channel, as then it will be boxed in again. And I've got to get them done before I swap pans, or at least I'd like to. SD

[Bobnotch]

Just so you know, those corner pockets in the rear of the front trunk are common rust thru spots. You can see that both John (racoguy) and I did repairs to that area on our own cars. Doesn't look too bad though. You might try warming the areas with a torch, then using a scrapper to help remove both the black and painted undercoating. Then use some laquer thinner to clean the areas up. I only mention it, as my 64 had a lot of surface rust hiding under the painted undercoating. Since you'll be cutting up the 65, you might want to use it's cowl metal IF it isn't rusty.
Looks like you're making good progress. At least the snow isn't around you like it is here.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[esde]

The rust in the rear trunk areas isn't nearly as bad as on the other car. Started cutting up the other car, to use various bits and pieces. The lower front corners where the bumper mounts are is rusted on the good car, but only on the passenger side. Remarkably, the donor is in good shape, probably the only straight clean steel in the front of the car. While dismantling it, I started to uncover the previous heater channel repairs. They are stout, but the completely wrong way to go about body repair. 1/8 aluminum sheet, wrapped around the whole channel, into the underside of the floor pan. Brass nuts and bolts every 6 inches or so to secure it. There is even a center stiffener piece, glued in place. Add copious amounts of filler and what appears to be solder, and you have my donor car!

I've got the majority of the bits for the front swapped over to the new beam, it sure is nice having both cars on stands next to each other. Also, started welding up some of the holes around the headlights. Man, some of the steel is THIN! I've got the ESAB turned way down, and it's hard to do a nice job. I'm thinking about ordering the pulse module for it, as it helps prevent burn through when working on thin stuff. SD

[W1K1]

[esde]

So, in a rush to get some floor space back in my shop, I've completely sectioned the old car, and have the floor pan bare, ready for cleaning, repair, and paint. As the rocker/ heater channel was shot, I carefully cut it open, and removed the wiring harness to the rear, so I have the complete harness coiled up with the dash. The front fenders, nose, and roof are hanging from the shop ceiling till I figure out what to do with them. The rear is frankly useless and will probably get scrapped. It seems that the seat tracks are 34 specific, so I will have to carefully remove these to install onto the other, better pans. Should be fun as there is some fiberglass repair over parts of the floor. Got the front end swap finished and got really lucky. The steering box, rod ends, and ball joints from the later car were tight and many appear to have few if any miles. Put 4 new wheel cylinders, grease seals, lines, hoses, shoes, and shocks on with the old spindles and it looks like the front suspension will be good to go. Only thing it still needs is a flex coupling at the box, is this the same as type 1? And who has a pan gasket for a type 3?

[Bobnotch]

[esde]

Here's a picture of the dash. I've got it this way so everything stays where it's supposed to be plugged in, with knobs, screws, etc. I have since shoved it up into the loft to stay out of the way

I dropped the pan out from under the 64, and sectioned off the pans. They're not perfect, but better than many, so I'll either use them to fix mine, or sell them. Here's the pan

and after the cutting

Both sides have this reinforcement rail, I've never seen in the many searches here

Anyone know about it? Bueller?
Here's the rat nest in the dash of the 64

and the pan from the 65, waiting for it to be warm enough to run the pressure washer, sandblaster, and paint

And just because, a through section of the rusted out, "repaired by PO" heater channels from the 65. Impact gun, torch, grinder, and sawzall to get them off of the pan. 200 little 5/16 head brass screws with nuts holding the 1/8 plate aluminum on, flathead no less.

And the hovercraft, wearing the lid of the 65

I have a few more pics showing the general condition of the channels, and some thoughts on repair. I'll get back to posting after dinner. Sorry for the pic quality. My good camera is too good for the shop, and the iphone takes pretty lo res pictures..

[esde]

Here are 4 shots that show the inside and underside of the heater channels on both sides. Front left

Rear left

Front right

rear right

They really started to come loose after getting the pan free. The door sills and inner channel skin seems fine. But where the inner skin bends under and becomes the mount for the pan, and then that bends down to meet the bottom of the outer rocker are shot in some places, and thin in others. The plan is to make the new pieces from slightly heavier gauge, to try to give some strength to a pretty weak design. The inner channel for the heat is borderline condition, I'm toying with the idea of replacing it with an 11g tube, to add strength and give the heat a new duct. I held up a scrap of 1x3" with the 3" vertical, and it seems like it may be an option. The floors, another dilemma. The pans on the 65, the swing axle pan I'm using, are 50% shot. Behind the seat frames is thin or missing. In front of the pans is hit or miss. Ok here, thin, too thin to weld there. So, I'm without a solid plan there. I think I'll order the rear pan sections from ISP, and patch the fronts together with what I have. It'll get there, now that I have it all in front of me. The wiring is going to be a nightmare. I think I've convinced myself to go oevr the harness form the 65, checking it, replacing ends or pieces, and labeling it, so that it can be installed into the 64. I'm reluctant to run it back inside of the heater channel, but the only other option is along the channel on top of the floor. Thoughts? I'll probably mock up the driver side channel tomorrow, check back for pics. SD

[Bobnotch]

[Bobnotch]

On my 64, I left the wiring harness in place, and checked it with an ohm meter. I found 3 wires that had bee chewed thru (by rodents), but otherwise, the harness was intact. I just fixed the chewed thru spots, and re-used the harness. You could always contact Greg Skinner (gregson1)and see IF he still has a new harness available. That's the 1 thing I didn't want to replace on my own car, as it looked like a MF job to do. If you look thru the different wiring diagrams, you'll see they pretty much stayed the same thru the years. This means you should be able to use the 64 harness with the 65 instruments. I'd go that route myself, if I were you.

It looks like most of the panels to rebuild the rockers too (in an earlier pic), are available, and it might be easier to go that route. This would keep all the bolt holes in the correct location, and allow you to clean up the inside of the rockers (and seal them).Then, when you install the inner piece, you'll only be tack (spot) welding them in place, which will look more factory correct.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[esde]

Thanks Bobnotch, I'll have to sit down and check all of the leads before I start sealing this back up. Today really flew, new nozzles for the plasma cutter and a quick tune up for the 4' finger brake, and the missing pieces are starting to reappear. I've come up with 4 pieces to rebuild the whole rocker/ heater channel, leaving the upper door sill, and inner heater channel. The panel that patches the inner rocker, mount face (nuts welded on the back side) and final leg down has to be 2 pieces, as the brake won't let you get two opposing bends that close to each other. So they're lapped over one another, where that lap is, they are drilled for the welded threaded mounting inserts. That is 20 gauge. The main vertical rib, in the center of the channel, is 16 gauge, and has a 1" angle welded to the center of it for added rigidity. That meets the bottom edge of the "final leg down" of the first piece, that is the flange for the bottom of the out rocker skin. Clear as mud right? Ok, how bout some foggy hone pics to clarify. The inside, mount surface, and lower "leg".

The inside main rib in 16g

And the whole thing mocked up with screws

I have to blast and seal the inside of this all very clean before I weld it back up, but feel confident in this repair so far. The outer rocker profile needs a bit of tweaking, but it is pretty close for a first attempt. I bent a new bottom for the heater "duct" part, as it was better than it appeared. Strange, as most everything else here was worse, but I'll take it. What do people use when welding on a sealed box? It's not like I can paint it and then weld it.. I have some weld through primer, I may coat the inside with it, weld it shut, and then fog the inside with epoxy primer. Nuts?
Also, got a large copper plate to back up the thin floor for welding. It is amazing how well it controls the burn through.

[gregson1]

The Type 34 wiring harness kits I had done are all gone.

[Bobnotch]

I just seal it up with epoxy, then weld it on. After I clean up the welds, I'll hit it again with more epoxy. There still might be a couple of spots that don't get sealed, but you'll have the majority covered.

Your home built pieces look good though, and should last a long time.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[W1K1]

eastwood makes this internal frame coating paint that works very well at painting inside an enclosed area.
http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle.html

basically a 360 degree spray tip on a length of tubing and a paint can tip. it is small enough it can slip in through trim/screw holes.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[esde]

W1K1, thanks for that link. Eastwood is about an hour from me and that looks like just what I need. I started welding on the drivers side today. Sandblasted what I could inside the channels first, followed by a heavy coat of rust converting coating up into where no wire brush or sandblasting would reach, followed by weld through primer. Then got the the inside and underside welded up. I'm at the point where I need to finish checking the wire harness before I weld up the outside skin. I'll probably do the same as my beetle, and run a length of trailer harness through so I have several spare wires front to back, if needed in the future. I had just started looking at a small garden sprayer, one with along wand wondering if the nozzle was big enough to spray epoxy through when I saw your post about the eastwood product, I'll definitely give it a try. Finished the day plasma cutting the blanks for the passenger side, will try to get those bent and welded by tomorrows end, and get some fresh pics. SD

[esde]

Here are a few update pics. I ran into a few more problems, mainly that the lower front fenders/ leading edge of the rocker has been repaired before. Not a bad job, but the way it was done I can't unbolt the lower edge of the fender and pull it back to repair where the heater channel meets the lower hinge pillar. It's all sort of kludged together, I have to do a bit more thinking before I come up with a final plan. Here is the rust I found after opening the passenger side channel

Everything was sandblasted, treated, primed, etc
New parts made and fit

This part has a leg at the top that fits up against the lower "step" in the door sill. I drilled a 5/16 hole every 4" in the sill and secured it with a rosette weld. It really put a lot of rigidity back into the door frame.

They match the drivers side that got welded in

This is after removing some of the previous patches, and welding in new ones, and test fitting a rocker piece

So, next to tidy up the ends, and weld the new rocker skins on. Getting closer to sitting back on the pan!

[Bobnotch]

[esde]

Thanks Bob. Yeah, I'm attacking the undercoat a bit here, and then a bit there. Like the sandblasting it's tedious and I can't stand to sit and do it for very long. I need a kid that's smart enough to not set himself on fire with the torch. What should I recoat with when it's all clean? My bug is done with a few coats of epoxy and a heavy coat of spray wax, seems to be easy to clean and has held up well, maybe the same?