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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: Help me - Power rear hatch lock works backwards |
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My rear factory power hatch lock has decided to work backwards.
I have searched to no good conclusion other than it is broken or lubricate it.
Here is what happens.
If I lock the car, the rear lock is in the unlock mode.
If I un lock the van, the rear locks.
Also, when locked, and I use the key to lock the trunk (slot vertical) it is unlocked.
It was working before, but I only noticed this on a recent little camping trip trying to take stuff out at the camp ground.
What to do? _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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outwesty Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2006 Posts: 1074 Location: Tahoe City
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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My 89 westy does the exact same thing. I still have not looked into it. |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Mine was doing this and Mario, Syncrodoka replied saying lube it.
Thats what I did and all is good.
Does your van have the emergency release on the rear hatch?
Mine does, so I made sure the other doors were in the unlocked position and popped the hatch, locked, from the inside and it reversed the mechanism.
I didnt want to pull the rear hatch panel as it and the fasteners are perfect, so I used a long extension on a can of Wurth HKS...super silicone and hosed the entire lock area from one of the lower door vents.
Hope this helps. |
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eeebee Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2009 Posts: 431 Location: Tujunga
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I also had this happen when I was "fixing" it. I didn't have the lock assembly in straight so the slider made contact at the wrong part of its slide. _________________ Eric
1987 Vanagon Wolfsburg Special Edition
GoWesty 2.3
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. |
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Jeff's Old Volks Home Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2011 Posts: 819 Location: Chester Basin, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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The slider in the latch is sticking on the detent ball. I often have to 'sand' the ramp on the slider smoother so it will travel with the actuator.
Take the hatch liner off and you'll see exactly what I mean.
Jeff |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 12005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Pull the panel and lube the part that slides back and forth with the actuator.
Cycle the system a few times to get the lube everywhere.
Unplug the wire to the actuator and lock or unlock the rest of the van and then plug the actuator back in.
You should be back in phase.
The mechanism gets dry and sticky then it has a hard time cycling and it gets left behind on one cycle and it becomes out of phase.
If you are lucky enough to have a '91 with the emergency latch like insyncro you can follow his lead. |
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davideric9 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1000 Location: Oakland CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I just fixed my yesterday. DON'T pull the panel (as the rear hatch panel is very fragile). Everything you need comes out through the bottom (you said you can open the hatch). Remove the three allen head screws on the bottom of the lock, then reach in and remove the linkage rod that connects the lock to the actuator, them remove the lock. Lubricate as everyone else as said. _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 12005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard of people doing as you suggested. Someone else showed a factory hole where the little red straw extension fit in and could be sprayed onto the dry part.
How does one get the actuator back into phase without unplugging the wiring? Is it as simple as pushing it into the opposite direction of where it is sitting and "manually overriding" it's position and resetting it to be in phase? I will likely never have to do it again on my van but I am interested in how it is done.
BTW, I have pulled out the rear panels before without damaging either the panel or clips with my handy snap-on panel tool, it can be done. |
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davideric9 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1000 Location: Oakland CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I like pulling the lock out to have it in my hand so I can clean it up and wipe away the dry cruddy stuff before I lube it. On mine, the lock was also sticky so the spring was not returning it to an unlocked state. Was easy to see this with the lock out.
As for getting the actuator back in sync, here I am just guessing, but I did not have any issue with this as the actuator was never out of sync and cannot get out of sync if it is still working. If you are not removing anything then you should be good. The whole sync thing is caused by the lock mechanism not moving to the proper position because of lack of lubricant, its getting stuck in the wrong position. The inner workings of the actuator should be fine. If you are in doubt, you could remove the linkage from the lock and cycle the front door locks a few times, be great if you had another person do this so you can watch the rod move in and out and then reconnect the lock to the rod in the appropriate position (locked or unlocked) and you should be good to go.
boy, 1 picture should have been used here. _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Where to lube????
Can some one edit and point to where, please.....
_________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Picture number 4 from the top shows the slide (my name for it)...that is what I believe is grabbing and not allowing free movement, or the actuator to slide the mechanism to lock and unlock, when it grabs, it gets out of sync.
This is an unproven theory.
Hose the entire area with your lube of choice. |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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To resync I would have the rest of the doors unlocked, pull the battery cable and use the rear hatch lock with a key to make sure it will lock and unlock freely.
Leave it unlocked, reattach the battery cable and hope for the best. |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 12005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Picture 2 and 4 show the rod that needs to be lubed.
The close up in picture 4 shows things a little clearer. The rod on the bottom is just a connector rod to the actuator. The upper rod that the u-shaped piece is the attached to is your monkey. The u-piece moves into out of a window that will or will not come in contact with the piece that is pushed in to open the door.
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Mario.
Yes the upper rod. |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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syncrodoka wrote: |
Picture 2 and 4 show the rod that needs to be lubed.
The close up in picture 4 shows things a little clearer. The rod on the bottom is just a connector rod to the actuator. The upper rod that the u-shaped piece is the attached to is your monkey. The u-piece moves into out of a window that will or will not come in contact with the piece that is pushed in to open the door.
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I am bad with words.
I ain't getting it.
Please add some pointers in the picture.
If you do not have an picture editor, you can fake it in Windoze with Paint.
If Linux, gimp it.
If Crapple, I think they have something built in, too. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 12005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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I would be interested in knowing if pushing the actuator into the opposite position manually by shoving the u shaped piece to the left would get it back into sync like davideric9 eluded to. |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Lube the blue line
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davideric9 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1000 Location: Oakland CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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At this point there is nothing holding the key portion of the lock into the van other than the actuator rod (on the bottom of the picture showing through the white plastic) and friction. Pop that rod out of the white plastic retainer and then you can push the lock into the hatch and wiggle it out of the hatch. Then you can clean it up and easily see what needs to be lubed. the rod pushes and pulls the U shaped metal, so if this is having trouble sliding, the door won't work right. Take it out, you are already there......
dh _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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Benjamin Gell Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2012 Posts: 107 Location: Tucson AZ
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Jeff's Old Volks Home wrote: |
The slider in the latch is sticking on the detent ball. I often have to 'sand' the ramp on the slider smoother so it will travel with the actuator.
Take the hatch liner off and you'll see exactly what I mean.
Jeff |
I had to do the same thing to the ramp, only very carefully, with a dremel.
Several tries with different lubes didn't solve the problem until I'd done more modification to the ramp than I had thought would be needed (slight reshaping was needed, not just smoothing it out). Its been perfect since.
I was as careful as I could be, but in removing my back panel, just about every clip broke. I looked forever, and finally found perfectly matching ones (grey color and texture correct) available through Vanagain, who ordered them from Germany. _________________ '88 Vanagon Wolfsburg hardtop, 10cent WBXaust.
"My God! Its full of stars!" oh, wait...that's gravel. |
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presslab Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008 Posts: 1730 Location: Sonoma County
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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While I agree it's probably something mechanical in the linkage, now's a good time to take the actual actuator out and refurbish it. All the ones I've taken apart have some kind of corrosion going on inside, and it's not hard to clean it up and put some new silicone grease on the wiper contacts. _________________ 1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti |
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