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splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Rods |
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| Beetspeed wrote: |
| snowbug wrote: |
| Wow looks good. Are you going to tell us the secret of putting those rods on the small diameter crank? Jim |
My q as well, but I think 3rd or 4th oversize chevy rod bearings...3rd over is +0.75mm while chevy is 50.80mm (nominal = 50.00), so still 0.05mm short, which they used as extra play or simply went one size further and turned the crank a little... |
We cut down the end caps on the rods then rebored to size, narrowed the rods to give .0018 side clearance and used 30 under chevy rod bearings. I am getting some raw H beam rods that haven't been machined yet. We are going to see if we can bore them to accept a standard bore 36 hp rod bearing. Both CB and AA have shown an interest in making 36 hp performance rods. I just need to send them my test rods
I want to thank Geoff Hart Performance and OLLIES Machine for helping me with this stupid idea I wanted to try
Ruined a couple rods trying to get this right. I have .00250 rod bearing clearance. I wanted .003 but just couldn't get it.
Next try will be HONDA rods with Mazda or Polaris jet ski pistons
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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i recently got to see a WW cw crank, and was getting ready to use it on a project engine. it looked pretty good. all except for the threads for the gland nut. they were fine until about the last 3-4 full threads (toward the bottom of the hole), and then they started to look very rough and poorly cut. i threaded in, BY HAND, a stock 36hp gland nut and it hit the rough part of the threads and stopped turning at that point. there was clearly too much space between where the gland nut should be when fully tightened (with a flywheel on the crank) and the end of the dowel pins. i measured the gap, and if i recall there was about a 6mm difference to be made up. clearly this is unacceptable, as running the gland nut in any further would either damage the gland nut, the threads in the crank, or both. however, when the crank was returned to WW to be exchanged because of this, they ran a gland nut in (i am presuming all the way into the ugly threads) and said it would not be a problem, and would not exchange it for a better one. i have not received the crankshaft back yet, so i don't know what it will look like when it gets here.
has anyone else run into bad threads at the gland nut end? if so, what was your solution?
Last edited by hazetguy on Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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36hplandspeedracer
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like your having lot's of fun in the "offtime" Ronnie. Congrats on the prototype progress!
Burly |
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Beetspeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 429
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Rods |
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| splitpile wrote: |
We cut down the end caps on the rods then rebored to size, narrowed the rods to give .0018 side clearance and used 30 under chevy rod bearings. I am getting some raw H beam rods that haven't been machined yet. We are going to see if we can bore them to accept a standard bore 36 hp rod bearing. Both CB and AA have shown an interest in making 36 hp performance rods. I just need to send them my test rods
I want to thank Geoff Hart Performance and OLLIES Machine for helping me with this stupid idea I wanted to try
Ruined a couple rods trying to get this right. I have .00250 rod bearing clearance. I wanted .003 but just couldn't get it.
Next try will be HONDA rods with Mazda or Polaris jet ski pistons |
Very cool!
I was thinking of (and have ordered) using a H-beam chinese type 4 rod, which has 50mm rod journal and comes in several lengths and 22mm pin size too. They are just way too wide, but it looks like they can be made to the required size due to the construction of the sides of the big end  .
I also need to try that out first though to be able to comment if it will really work. Just hope I don't screw one up either as before these 'cheap' rods are here and everything has been paid, you cannot call them cheap anymore..
Do the Honda rods your thinking of have the bolts on the 'right' side?
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'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A |
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pig-pen
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012
Posts: 570
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I was just looking into the idea of using 2.0 type 4 rods and those H beam seem like they would work, the material being taken of the part that projects from the H beam width... if you know what i mean.
Just wondering, what do you do with the bearings? do they get machined down too? |
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Beetspeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 429
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| pig-pen wrote: |
I was just looking into the idea of using 2.0 type 4 rods and those H beam seem like they would work, the material being taken of the part that projects from the H beam width... if you know what i mean.
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Yes, I know exactly what you mean 
| Quote: |
Just wondering, what do you do with the bearings? do they get machined down too? |
Yep, that's the intention anyways. It looks like the bearing tangs are just spared (enough) to still do their job.
But only trying it will show if this will work..
we're going OT tho 
_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A |
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snowbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Oshawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: Threads |
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| Just checked my new WW crank, threads are perfect at both ends, no problem. Just need a good case to stuff it into. Jim |
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snowbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Oshawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| 36hplandspeedracer wrote: |
Agreed Matthew. Since the 36hp Challenge began and 36hp cranks started going "where no man has gone before" in RPM's, and that is sustained high RPM's for a mile or more and we have never seen one break.
I believe the reason you and Tom Bruch, Blackline and others have no problems is you select good core 36hp cranks to begin with. A simple "ring" test of a suspended crank ( and that includes ALL crankshafts ) is almost as good, if not better than having a crank cracked checked by magnafluxing or other means. I think the 36hp Challenge racers have put to rest the myth about all 36hp cranks being weak.
Wolfsburg West 69.5mm new stroker crank. Photo by WW.
The beautiful part about the Wolfsburg West stroker crank is that it is new, eight doweled and easily available commercially from an extremely reputable Volkswagen parts supplier. You can't go wrong with the WW component.
Burly |
Hi Burly, and others, I just started working on my 1300 again. Seems the dowel pins that came in the WW crank are soft. I am not sure how to get these soft pins out. I want to replace them with German VW hard pins. Jim |
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36hplandspeedracer
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Jim, contact Shaun Tunstill at WW and see if they might have a solution to your concern. WW provides contingency awards for Wolfsburg West Okrasa Kit racers at World of Speed and have every interest in making sure you will have success.
Burly |
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Robert Chambers
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2005
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: 356 flywheel |
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I am new to 36 old speed but, not new to VW engine building. I have been gathering parts to build a nice 36 for my new project a Standard Zwitter. My question is has anyone used a new forged lightened flywheel as seen for sale on ebay. Go to ebay motors search 356 flywheel. It comes up for sale from kokoparts. The add states it will work with any 200 MM VW clutch kit. This flywheel looks to be a direct bolt on to a 36 crank. Also since it is lightened, case clearance looks to be no problem. I plan to use a WW 69.5 crank with their Okrasa repo kit. So the crank and flywheel should be a good combination, both 8 dowel? Thanks for any response or help.
Bob
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'63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117 |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
I suspect it's made by AA Performance. If so, Splitpile has worked with them. I suggest you PM him.
Cheers,
Paul
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"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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snowbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Oshawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| hazetguy wrote: |
i recently got to see a WW cw crank, and was getting ready to use it on a project engine. it looked pretty good. all except for the threads for the gland nut. they were fine until about the last 3-4 full threads (toward the bottom of the hole), and then they started to look very rough and poorly cut. i threaded in, BY HAND, a stock 36hp gland nut and it hit the rough part of the threads and stopped turning at that point. there was clearly too much space between where the gland nut should be when fully tightened (with a flywheel on the crank) and the end of the dowel pins. i measured the gap, and if i recall there was about a 6mm difference to be made up. clearly this is unacceptable, as running the gland nut in any further would either damage the gland nut, the threads in the crank, or both. however, when the crank was returned to WW to be exchanged because of this, they ran a gland nut in (i am presuming all the way into the ugly threads) and said it would not be a problem, and would not exchange it for a better one. i have not received the crankshaft back yet, so i don't know what it will look like when it gets here.
has anyone else run into bad threads at the gland nut end? if so, what was your solution? |
Are you trying to put a 1600 gland nut on a 36hp crank? They are different. Some sellers say they are the same part number but they are not. 36hp is shorter. |
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vwtestpilot
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:14 am Post subject: Re: 356 flywheel |
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| Robert Chambers wrote: |
I am new to 36 old speed but, not new to VW engine building. I have been gathering parts to build a nice 36 for my new project a Standard Zwitter. My question is has anyone used a new forged lightened flywheel as seen for sale on ebay. Go to ebay motors search 356 flywheel. It comes up for sale from kokoparts. The add states it will work with any 200 MM VW clutch kit. This flywheel looks to be a direct bolt on to a 36 crank. Also since it is lightened, case clearance looks to be no problem. I plan to use a WW 69.5 crank with their Okrasa repo kit. So the crank and flywheel should be a good combination, both 8 dowel? Thanks for any response or help.
Bob |
Hi Bob,
If you or anybody else is still looking for the answer, I bought one of those,they are from AA. The only issue I had was that I had to machine the center hole about 0.5mm so the 36hp gland nut would fit.
I still have not assembled the engine, so I dont know if the 12lb flywheel is going to be too light compared to the original 18lb one.
And yes, i am using it with a WW crank. |
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Robert Chambers
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2005
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: Re: 356 flywheel |
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| vwtestpilot wrote: |
| Robert Chambers wrote: |
I am new to 36 old speed but, not new to VW engine building. I have been gathering parts to build a nice 36 for my new project a Standard Zwitter. My question is has anyone used a new forged lightened flywheel as seen for sale on ebay. Go to ebay motors search 356 flywheel. It comes up for sale from kokoparts. The add states it will work with any 200 MM VW clutch kit. This flywheel looks to be a direct bolt on to a 36 crank. Also since it is lightened, case clearance looks to be no problem. I plan to use a WW 69.5 crank with their Okrasa repo kit. So the crank and flywheel should be a good combination, both 8 dowel? Thanks for any response or help.
Bob |
Hi Bob,
If you or anybody else is still looking for the answer, I bought one of those,they are from AA. The only issue I had was that I had to machine the center hole about 0.5mm so the 36hp gland nut would fit.
I still have not assembled the engine, so I dont know if the 12lb flywheel is going to be too light compared to the original 18lb one.
And yes, i am using it with a WW crank. |
Thanks for your response. I will check on the size for the gland nut fit.
Cheers,
Bob
_________________
'63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117 |
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tobiasax
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 202
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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The balancer called to say he's ready balancing my 69,5 mm WW crank (+flywheel+clutch). He said it was very un-balanced to start with, despite it had holes that did look like balancing holes.
Thus: don't forget to balance your WW crank if you want a smooth running engine!
Other than that I think the crank looks nice. No problems with the threads. |
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58Blue
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2010
Posts: 114
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Just curious, does this crank require any internal case clearancing? |
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snowbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Oshawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| 58Blue wrote: |
| Just curious, does this crank require any internal case clearancing? |
Crank spins freely in the case without rods. The instructions state to clear the rod cap by the threaded part . |
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tobiasax
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 202
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Another thing: stock pistons need to be machined to not hit the counterweights. I will post instructions on my blog as soon as I am ready. I promise to write in english this time
http://lowlightkaizen.blogspot.se |
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snowbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Oshawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| tobiasax wrote: |
Another thing: stock pistons need to be machined to not hit the counterweights. I will post instructions on my blog as soon as I am ready. I promise to write in english this time
http://lowlightkaizen.blogspot.se |
I also have 2 different 36hp cylinders. One is short and one has a longer skirt that fits into the case. The common ones are short. Will not be using the longer cylinders but I will check the clearance on the longer ones too.
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tobiasax
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 202
Location: Sweden
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