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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: Quality of the repo noses? When to replace the nose? |
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Hi everyone,
After 20 years of ownership I have finally started the process of restoring my 72 coupe. The first step was to da sand the front end.
When I did the drivers side fender, it was ok except for the headlight area...which has Frankenstein welds and some rust. The headlight area needs replacing a few inches back from the bulb......but at least there was solid metal there. The pass side fender as also decent except for the headlight area. On the pass side the entire headlight area was constructed of fiberglass and filler.
Then I moved to sanding the nose. Well I realized that my car had been hit in the nose, a few times! Almost the entire ridge was built from filler, and there is even a very tiny crack in the metal on the ridge. I assume that the nose metal was worked many times so the metal is thin. There was also an assortment of small dents in the nose covered with filler.
So at this point where should I go? The John Kelly ridges are long gone. I guess I could weld the small crack on the ridge, but the ridge is still a mess. What is the quality of the repo noses? I assume that you must buy the air boxes separately? Should I chnage the nose or find a great metal guy...I am not a great metal guy! The lower half of the nose (under the spare tire) was also replaced at some time.
Thank you,
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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ernstben Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 621 Location: Manchester, Mi
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tisius Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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So that's were the Ghia's go when they die |
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EPETREA Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 391 Location: DFW TX
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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So sad!!! |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks....I contacted them already and they don't have anything that fits the bill of being rot free at this point.
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Also I took a very close look at the nose today, and the ridge is not as bad as I originally figured. With that said there is still a crack in the ridge, and it is misshaped in numerous areas. Any ideas?
With respect to the repo nose are they good quality? Any experience with them?
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Bump....
I am still looking for info as to the quality of the repo nose. Has anyone actually ever used one? They go for $600.00, but for a new part it seems worth it. What are the pro's and con's to the repo nose?
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Marlonius Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2004 Posts: 398 Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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You should post a few pics of your nose as it is today as well and see what advice you can get about repair. It could very well be easier to fix in situ than replace altogether - used part or repro.
Secondly, I'd lurk in the classified section here and be patient. People part out some pretty rust free vehicles from time to time.
Finally, some cons of that part - to answer your original question - you'd have to do significant welding - opening the nostrils and transplanting the underlying parts. You'd also have to add the horn hole and presumably the brackets for the horn. So, even if it's a perfect repro, it'll still be work.
My advice without seeing your car is to give it a few months of monitoring the classifieds here.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Marlonius wrote: |
You should post a few pics of your nose as it is today as well and see what advice you can get about repair. It could very well be easier to fix in situ than replace altogether - used part or repro.
Secondly, I'd lurk in the classified section here and be patient. People part out some pretty rust free vehicles from time to time.
Finally, some cons of that part - to answer your original question - you'd have to do significant welding - opening the nostrils and transplanting the underlying parts. You'd also have to add the horn hole and presumably the brackets for the horn. So, even if it's a perfect repro, it'll still be work.
My advice without seeing your car is to give it a few months of monitoring the classifieds here.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search |
I forgot......how do I post pictures here on the Samba?
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Ian Godfrey Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 1137 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
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see the last sticky directly above this thread |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Ian Godfrey wrote: |
see the last sticky directly above this thread |
Now you have created a monster! I can post pics!
Here is the nose in bare metal (now is has a light coat of dark gray primer on it).
Notice the distortion of the ridge, as much of it was built from filler. Also notice the crack in the ridge. The crack is small, but it is on the ridge, just about in line with the top of the grills.
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Steve22 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2004 Posts: 1389 Location: the wild unknown
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Zack1978 wrote: |
Ian Godfrey wrote: |
see the last sticky directly above this thread |
Now you have created a monster! I can post pics!
Here is the nose in bare metal (now is has a light coat of dark gray primer on it).
Notice the distortion of the ridge, as much of it was built from filler. Also notice the crack in the ridge. The crack is small, but it is on the ridge, just about in line with the top of the grills.
Zack |
That nose is not in that bad of shape from what I can see. Get you some tools and some scrap metal and practice, practice, practice. Then do your own work. If you're not comfortable with that, contact the local HS body shop teacher and see if they can do it as a school project. _________________ '65 Karmann Ghia 'vert
'73 Super Beetle
'59 Beetle ragtop
'73 Sunroof Transporter |
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Marlonius Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2004 Posts: 398 Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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You know, that doesn't look too bad to me. Personally, before I ordered anything or cut anything off that car, I'd first try to repair it in place. You literally have nothing to lose, but have time and money to save (gain).
Obviously you have the rust in the 12 oclock position on your P. side headlight, but you'd be dealing with that in any case. Assuming you can weld if you're considering an overall graft, I think you should be able to MIG up the crack and then do further massage.
I did a quickie search on your behalf, and the nose punch is well covered if you care to do the same. Meanwhile, a couple of my faves:
Great Post about noses, specifically ridge restoration.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...p;start=20
And this one - great photos by 74 Autostick down the page - shows a repair that had a worse starting point than you have.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6326350&highlight=#6326350
PS: Your mirror base is on upside down - the mirror should be ore parallel to the ground.
Edit: I see Steve22 was typing the same thing essentially as me at the same time. Great minds I suppose! |
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carl4x4 Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2012 Posts: 679 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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The nose section looks quite good, I've seen some with a lot more damage that have been repaired than yours. I'd vote for repairing, it's probably less work than replacing and keeps it original. |
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EPETREA Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 391 Location: DFW TX
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Find a great metal guy, you will thank yourself later. If the nose doesnt have to come off you will save yourself a major headache. |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thank for the help everyone!
Here are some more pics of the nose damage. It is a bit harder to see since there is primer on it, but the pics are good quality....they were taken with a real camera. At this point there is no filler at all on the nose, just real metal and primer.
Would a pick and file be good to use here?
Thank you,
Zack
_________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Also.......when I sanded the nose down I realized that it was patched near the bumper bracket holes on both sides. My car is a 72 and I don't think it ever had the bumper reinforcement tubes like the 73 and 74 cars did, correct?
It almost looks like the area where those tubes would have gone was welded over. These two areas were repairs, and not factory, correct?
Thanks,
Zack
driver's side
pass side _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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Marlonius Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2004 Posts: 398 Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Good pictures.
It does look like you're missing something there. What bumpers did your car have when you got it? I've never owned a 72+, but I believe the 72-74 all had the same bumper with an extra circular hole and tubular "shock absorber.
As for your nose, I think some gentle metal work would get that most of the way back to normal shape. The ridge itself looks to be missing actual material. If it were my car, I might try welding that up, starting at the bottom. I'd use something copper as a heat sink such as a piece of pumbing pipe with the end pinched flat and then hammer rolled to replicate the inside curvature of the ridge. Go slow, all that. I'd do the welding first, then panel beating of the metal after.
When it comes to dents, one is often tempted to hit the high point of the dent first. In fact, you need to start at the outside of the dent and work your way in toward the center. Imagine hitting the last part that bent first and "undoing the dent" in the reverse order to which it occurred. I don't know if this makes much sense, it's hard to describe in words.
. Youtube is a great source of video tutorials for this sort of thing. I was shocked at how little force it really took when I had a friend school me on my own car. |
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Zack1978 Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 544 Location: NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Marlonius wrote: |
Good pictures.
It does look like you're missing something there. What bumpers did your car have when you got it? I've never owned a 72+, but I believe the 72-74 all had the same bumper with an extra circular hole and tubular "shock absorber.
As for your nose, I think some gentle metal work would get that most of the way back to normal shape. The ridge itself looks to be missing actual material. If it were my car, I might try welding that up, starting at the bottom. I'd use something copper as a heat sink such as a piece of pumbing pipe with the end pinched flat and then hammer rolled to replicate the inside curvature of the ridge. Go slow, all that. I'd do the welding first, then panel beating of the metal after.
When it comes to dents, one is often tempted to hit the high point of the dent first. In fact, you need to start at the outside of the dent and work your way in toward the center. Imagine hitting the last part that bent first and "undoing the dent" in the reverse order to which it occurred. I don't know if this makes much sense, it's hard to describe in words.
. Youtube is a great source of video tutorials for this sort of thing. I was shocked at how little force it really took when I had a friend school me on my own car. |
Yes, I would say that the ridge is missing some metal. I would hate to rebuild the ridge out of filler again!
As far as the bumpers go, I just saw a 72 listed for sale and it does not have the tubes. My car was built in Nov of 71, so I wonder when the tubes were added.
Zack _________________ 1972 Coupe |
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