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DIY Front Air Conditioning
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

A while back I purchased a NostalgicAir UD-110 under dash unit.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20

I just measured it and it's size is darn near identical to the Diavia unit posted above.

So, if you want to try this mod, the UD-110 is on the shelf and ready to ship from Nostalgic Air.

It's probably the same unit......... Keep in mind my dimensions are fast and dirty.

Diavia specs.......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My UD-110
1" = 25.4mm

9 1/2" deep. 241 mm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


16" wide. 406mm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


5" high. 127mm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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iulian
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Though, doing some searching, I cannot seem to find a sales point for the Diavia 62U003FF084EC in North America........

Dave


I forgot to mention, I bought the unit from a Webasto dealer, they are handling the distribution of Diavia products

Iulian
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iulian
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

For accuracy, below are the adjustments I needed to make to the evap unit, yellow is the cut line: front lip (~10mm, used for accessories fitting like louvers..etc, useless on my install) and upper cut into evap unit condense water tray(5mm).
Deduct them from the dimensions on Diavia specs above and you get what I think is max allowed by the heater box for height and length in case other units are to be used. On width, the heater box is more permissive but if it's too wide the wiper mechanism bracket will get on the way

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Hope it helps
Cheers // Iulian
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Ray_V6TDI
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Wow, this Diavia solution is really great. I have been thinking about an indash "as stock as possible" solution for years. I think this is it.

Does the Diavia-cooled air pass the stock heater core?

With a clever flap between left and right half of the unit, and a 50% shorter stock heater core, could one realize a real Audi-style climatronic, routing air through, or around, the (smaller) heater core?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Very nice work, Julian! Looks like you solved the problem I was trying to solve but couldn't - - getting an evaporator inside the factory HVAC box. Bravo!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

what would it take to make this thermo controlled instead of the manual (like the micro switch btw) ..... possibly a nostalgic air controller?
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iulian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Thanks all for the appreciation. I need to be fair, it was only an enhancement on the great ideas here on TheSamba. If it wasn't for this forum(and the missus) I wouldn't have probably thought of installing an AC into my T3

Ray, yes, all the air goes through the stock heater core. That section of the heater box was not affected by the evap unit install and nor the air distribution system to dash, defrost, feet
Super idea on putting a climatronic function but I can't tell on the flaps system, that would be an interesting project to watch. To take your idea and vanis13 question further: might be a similar result with an ambient thermostat, a solenoid on the heater core hose and a control unit to take care of all hvac components and mix cold and warm air?
For someone knowledgeable on system automation would probably be not too difficult
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markd89
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

I'm visiting from the Bay Window forum. I have a TDI powered 78 Bus and am considering putting in AC. I have some different challenges, but many that are are the same. My main question is how much cooling is needed to get the large interior space down to a cool temp ad keep it there.

I would implement it as recirculating inside air.

I'm trying to eyeball how big of an evaporator is needed. Consider driving on a 100+ *F day. Does anyone have an idea of how much BTU of cooling is needed to get the interior temp down to 70*F or so? Can I get by with a 13K BTU after-market evaporator or do I need to fit something bigger?

I'd appreciate hearing any suggestions & experiences..

Thanks!
Mark
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

The Vanagon recirculates interior air only, is mounted in the rear above the back window.

I've no idea of the btu's but the Evapoator coil is about 2ft long and 6" square.

When working well it effectively cools the interior ti the point if wanting a sweater.
Others opinions can and do vary! But often their A/C is operating in a sub par mechanical condition.

A Bay Window while slightly smaller inside shouldn't require too different of capacity.
People remove these evaporators and sell them frequently. But that's a story for another thread!

Dave
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Hey Markd89:

If your AC is front-mounted, then it will be very effective for cooling the front-seat occupants. If you need the rear of the van to be equally cold, you have two options:

1. Include a rear evaporator; or
2. Use center-dash vents on your front evaporator unit to drive high-velocity chilled air to the back of the van.

I have now determined, after my most recent trip through the hottest parts of BC, that I need to slow down the air velocity in my front-mounted AC by adding some foot vents and maybe one or two more vents in the lower part of the dash. Why? Because I get windburn on my face from the high-velocity vents in dry conditions. I am mentioning this because you have a chance to install more vent outlets more easily on your initial installation.

Here is a link to the evaporator unit section of the Nostalgic AC website:

http://nostalgicac.com/evaporator-units/underdash-evaporators.html

They have a good selection and you might find one that fits your needs nicely.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:
Hey Markd89:

If your AC is front-mounted, then it will be very effective for cooling the front-seat occupants. If you need the rear of the van to be equally cold, you have two options:

1. Include a rear evaporator; or
2. Use center-dash vents on your front evaporator unit to drive high-velocity chilled air to the back of the van.

I have now determined, after my most recent trip through the hottest parts of BC, that I need to slow down the air velocity in my front-mounted AC by adding some foot vents and maybe one or two more vents in the lower part of the dash. Why? Because I get windburn on my face from the high-velocity vents in dry conditions. I am mentioning this because you have a chance to install more vent outlets more easily on your initial installation.

Here is a link to the evaporator unit section of the Nostalgic AC website:

http://nostalgicac.com/evaporator-units/underdash-evaporators.html

They have a good selection and you might find one that fits your needs nicely.


Could the center floor duct be a good addition to get cold air from a front ac to the back.

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Ive only ever seen them in early manual gas models, but still?
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

I thought the raised floor was an '82/'83 diesel-only item.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I thought the raised floor was an '82/'83 diesel-only item.


In Europe it was available on early gas models, but non-turbo diesel models also had the same low floor, so probably available there too. It was not available on automatic vans or on turbo diesels.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I thought the raised floor was an '82/'83 diesel-only item.


I had one in my 87 doka 5 seater to get heat to the rear of the cabin.
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markd89
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:

If your AC is front-mounted, then it will be very effective for cooling the
front-seat occupants.

<snip>
Here is a link to the evaporator unit section of the Nostalgic AC website:

http://nostalgicac.com/evaporator-units/underdash-evaporators.html

They have a good selection and you might find one that fits your needs nicely.


Howesight, thanks much for your message. If the stock Audi A4 unit is providing enough cooling for you, I can probably extrapolate that a typical aftermarket (13000 btu) evaporator would work for me as I'd suspect they're about the same capacity. That was my main concern.

The nostaligac units look nice, but I am limited on the front to 8-9" of depth, but I have found other aftermarket ones that would fit.

djkeev wrote:
The Vanagon recirculates interior air only, is mounted in the rear above the back window.

I've no idea of the btu's but the Evapoator coil is about 2ft long and 6" square.

When working well it effectively cools the interior ti the point if wanting a sweater.


djkeev, this is great info too. 24x6x6=864 cu" which from the little that I know seems like a pretty huge evaporator. The fact that you can chill a Vanagon with just that in the back and no evaporator in front, does give me another option. Now, I have more measuring to do...

Thanks again and more ideas, please do tell!

Mark
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

markd89 wrote:
I'm visiting from the Bay Window forum. I have a TDI powered 78 Bus and am considering putting in AC. I have some different challenges, but many that are are the same. My main question is how much cooling is needed to get the large interior space down to a cool temp ad keep it there.

I would implement it as recirculating inside air.

I'm trying to eyeball how big of an evaporator is needed. Consider driving on a 100+ *F day. Does anyone have an idea of how much BTU of cooling is needed to get the interior temp down to 70*F or so? Can I get by with a 13K BTU after-market evaporator or do I need to fit something bigger?

I'd appreciate hearing any suggestions & experiences..

Thanks!
Mark


Just thinking out loud here, but didn't some bay window vans come with A/C where the evaporator was mounted overhead, just behind the driver? I know the first Vanagons up to 1985 used a similar system.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

buspor63 wrote:

Just thinking out loud here, but didn't some bay window vans come with A/C where the evaporator was mounted overhead, just behind the driver? I know the first Vanagons up to 1985 used a similar system.


That is good thinking. There was such a thing. It's really big and heavy and so I'm trying to avoid it but I see your point - the more stock one can be, the eaiser things usually go.

So, to confirm, it's the later Vanagon which only have rear AC but still manage to get a good chill going for the people up front?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

OddN wrote:


Could the center floor duct be a good addition to get cold air from a front ac to the back.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




One drawback to using the center floor duct is that cold air does not rise, it stays down low.
So for a better circulation of the air it really is better if the cold air comes out near the roof or able to be directed upwards to the top of the interior so that it naturally sinks to the floor cooling the hot ambient air as it does so.
However, if you pump enough cold air through the center floor ducting it will do something!
You could create some louvers for the discharge vents of the center air duct to aim the cold air upwards.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

markd89 wrote:


So, to confirm, it's the later Vanagon which only have rear AC but still manage to get a good chill going for the people up front?


The later Vanagons have a long center duct mounted along the interior roof going all the way to the front where there was a plenum mounted the full width the front windshield.
there were vents about midway to allow the cold air to be vented into the center of the cabin and vent along the top of the windshield plenum.
It has been reported by many that removing the center duct increases the air blowing out of the rear mounted AC. Basically, the vents and the duct slow down the air.The blast from the rear is able to cool down the front without having to be guided through the duct.
On the Westfalia they could not have the center duct so they used a distribution plenum with a lot of vents.

You can usually see the center ducts being advertised in the Classifieds.
Another drawback to the center ducting is they are old and getting brittle so they are cracking and in some cases falling down.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: DIY Front Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I thought the raised floor was an '82/'83 diesel-only item.


Also have it on my '91 Syncro 16, 2.1wbx.
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