Headlight relay connector melted

[dobryan]

So yesterday on the way home I smelled some burning wire and the low beams went out. Still had high beams. (I've been thinking that I smelled some slight burning smell for a couple of weeks but could never be sure since it was so slight.)

This evening I was able to take a look at things. The ignition switch area was fine, no smells. The wiring to the lights themselves was fine. No blown fuses either. When I dropped the fuse block I found that one of the headlight relays had a wire obviously burnt and melted just at the connector.

The relay kit was from one of the usual vendors, don't remember which one. The relay itself shows no damage.

So, what could cause this and what do I do to troubleshoot and fix this? I'm not sure where to start. I don't want to just replace the relay and wire connector and hope that it doesn't happen again.

Thanks!
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[rubbachicken]

i'd say it was not making good contact, they get hot when there's resistance and that happens, i have one, similar pm me if you want me to ship it out to you
_________________
lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'


markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182

[Terry Kay]

Bad Ground on the headlamp.
Look at the plug.
That's the "power out" terminal that melted if the vendor wired it right.
_________________
T.K.

[dobryan]

Terry,

Thanks for the feedback, but I wonder why a bad ground would show up at the connection to the relay? Just asking 'cause I thought a bad ground connection would show the fault (hot spot) at the ground connection, not some other area on the current path (the relay).

I am out of my league on this one.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Terry Kay]

Bad ground would heat up the power outlet of the relay & terminal mount while it's searching for that ground.

Have you verified that you have a good ground on that headlamp?
I can see that it is the power out feed to the headlamp by the position of the terminal.
_________________
T.K.

[thatvwbusguy]

That looks like one of my relays. When you are dealing with a bad ground, heat can show up anywhere along the current track. In this case, a bad ground at the headlight plug most likely created the resistance and the circuit heated up, getting hottest at the origin point of the output (terminal #87)

What are you running for bulbs? I have only seen this happen twice, both times it was with 80/100W bulbs in the mains and 100W in the highs. All this amperage, combined with sketchy grounds can equate to a heck of a lot of heat.

Check the condition of the headlight connectors to see if they are warped or melted at all. I have replacement 9004 connectors available if yours are damaged. In cases like this, I would recommend grounding the headlights to the body of the van as close to the bulbs as possible with a ring connector and an external star lock washer to reduce the length of the ground path (a short ground wire is a happy ground wire).

If you want to redo your grounds, email me your shipping address (mail to: [email protected]) and I will send out a replacement relay socket under warranty, along with a couple ring terminals, star washers and a little packet of dielectric grease to get you back in business. Also be sure to check the condition of the wire where the melting occurred to ensure that it is not brittle. I can replace that as well if it is questionable.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[crazyvwvanman]

You had a bad contact at that relay spade contact. The bad contact heated up over time and melted the plastic. Nothing to do with a distant ground point.

Mark

[dobryan]

Thanks guys.

Tonight I will check the grounds and the headlights just to be sure they are OK.

As a temporary fix I will put a new spade connector on the burnt wire (cutting that wire back a couple of inches first) and reconnect the socket and see what happens.

thatvwbusguy, I'll take you up on the offer of a new socket and grounds. I'll email you my address. I did install the busdepot higher wattage headlight kit at the same time I added the relays (and yes I do think that they are yours).

I'll update you all after I see what I find. Thanks again.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[insyncro]

[dobryan]

Checked the grounds and they look OK. (But Jay is going to send me what I need to ground them close to the headlights).

The plug and wiring at the back of the headlights is fine. No sign of heat.

I found that the relay associated with the burnt socket is bad too. If I swap the other relay to the bad socket I can get the high beams to come on. If I put the good relay on the other socket I get the low beams on.

Low beams come on this way....

It looks like I am going to drive it on low beams until I get the socket and relay replaced, and reground the lights as well. Any advice on why I should not do this?

Thanks!
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[bellasyncro]

[llamaman]

I have a 91 canadian Westy Multivan. I bought it recently. It has a South African Headlight upgrade. It worked fine.
Recently I turned the van off and attempted to turn the head lights off, the low beams would not turn off unless I removed the fuse. But the next morning the battery was drained. I checked the relays and noted that one of the new relays had a 12 volt reading on both the 'blue and white' wires. I assumed it was bad and replaced. But still the headlights stay on. Any thoughts? Short in a wire?

[Dadagon]

I'm in a similar pickle with my '87 Vanagon tin top.

On our way back from Las Vegas, our low beams went out just as we entered into Texas. Yes, it was dark out...yes we pulled over immediately.

The high beams still worked, but only if we held up the high beam switch. I rigged a piece of weather stripping between the steering column cover and that left side high beam lever to keep them on. Little did I know I was making things worse...regarding heat. What choice did I have anyhow...

We made it about another hour into Texas, nearing Lubbock before the high beams wend out! I was at a loss at the time. Long story short, we were forced to pull over at an abandoned rest stop without the use of any real illumination, slept it off. Sun up, we made the rest of our way to Houston.

Not being familiar with the "#30" circuit (refer to the Bentley manual in the electrical section. They have these circuit pathways labeled seemingly uncustomary in a rows and columns array…I’ve never been able to get used to it..), I started my diagnosis journey at the high beam lever switch. Started with the brute force method and purchased new high beam/wiper switch assembly from Van Cafe if I’m not mistaken, lower cost than GoWesty. Replaced the assembly along with a worn out horn ring, still no low or high beams!

Then, I focused on the dash mounted head light switch. Disassembled it for inspection…no sign of fault there.

Took a look at the headlight wiring behind the front grill/emblem to find no issues there either. Checked for good ground on the steering column by the driver’s feet, and the one on the back hatch near the rear defroster wiring. Both looked good.

Finally, worked my way all the way up the “#30” circuit to the ignition switch. The plastic plug housing was melted.

After removing the ignition switch, it was also melted

It appears as though the wire labeled “#30” (red 4mm) and “X” (bk/y 2.5mm) both got too hot to handle, and melted through their plastic housings. Once I dissected the ignition switch itself (split the plastic housing) I found the brass contacts inside melted away from each other creating an open circuit. I.E. no head lights, high beams or low, other things that I noticed went out with the head lights: front wipers, a/c blower motor (guessing bc the a/c wouldn’t turn on with the open circuit).

I bought a new Electrical Ignition Switch Connector from Van Café (pn 111.953.631), but was not able to make it work with my Radio Shack tab style female connectors. The VW connectors have a little tang/tab that allows them to grip the inside of the switch connector, whereas the Radio Shack versions do not. I.E. they didn’t grab/grip, so I used heat shrink tubing to isolate them from one another. See pic:

I replaced the Ignition switch with one from O’Reileys.

And am not sure if I’ve fixed the root cause of all this! I still notice the “#30” (red 4mm) wire is still getting hot randomly once the the low beams are on. This is the power into the ignition switch. Any pointers on what may be causing these wires to overheat?

Should I ground the headlights closer to the headlamps?

Should I replace the head lamps? (I’m not sure what type are in there now…)

Thanks in advance,

Dadagon

[thatvwbusguy]

Definitely inspect your grounds and clean up or replace anything that looks questionable.

The ultimate solution to the problem is to remove as much current as possible from the ignition switch and headlight switch with relays. A set of headlight relays and a hard start relay will reduce the load on the ignition switch to less than 1A for those circuits. Brighter headlights and better starts are a nice side effect as well.

Check the link in my signature line for all sorts of info about relays and better lighting.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[dobryan]

BTW, Jay (thatvwbusguy) was great on supplying replacement parts and a headlight ground kit. All is well. I would definitely recommend any of his stuff.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[stevey88]

If your ground is no good - high contact resistance to the chassis (note that broken wire is infinite resistance), the current will only decrease and not increase as the total resistance of the circuit is now higher. Since you have a new switch, your problem may be due to a intermittent short of the head light wiring to ground.
_________________
Steve

87 Westfalia full camper 4 speed

[vanagonjr]

[Dadagon]

Thanks for the information. Yes, my headlights are lacking.
I'll take you up on that offer and order your kit tomorrow.

Once I get it installed and have tested out the response, I'll report my findings;)

[smurfpike]

[thatvwbusguy]

It looks like you are running the South African grill, which opens up the possibilities quite a bit.

The quality of high wattage bulbs tends to be pretty bad these days. The last time I bought a few Hella 100/80W H4's, you could see differences in the filament position between them with the naked eye. Needless to say, I won't be buying any more Hella bulbs in the future..

There are definitely still some decent bulbs available with higher than stock output, but they are significantly more expensive than standard bulbs. At least in this case, it seems that you get what you pay for.

For the main outer H4 bulbs, I really like the Osram Hyper 85/80W http://www.rallylights.com/h-412xo-h4-9003-hb2-12v-osram-hyper-each.html for people who do more of their driving in densely populated areas, these bulbs are also available in 70/65W version.

The best H3 bulbs I have found for the inner high beams are the Narva RangePower +50 http://www.rallylights.com/cp48335-h3-55-xenon-50-replacement-bulb-narva.html. These bulbs are standard wattage, but have much higher than stock lumen output.

When running higher than stock wattage bulbs, there is going to be more heat generated at the bulbs. Replacing the stock plastic headlight sockets with quality ceramic sockets is highly recommended.

Any high performance bulbs will have a shorter lifespan than a standard bulb, so it is definitely a good idea to carry a spare.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.