Stock aux battery wiring/real time help

Timwhy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:12 am Post subject:

Yes
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:24 am Post subject:

Great thanks Tim!

PDXWesty · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:28 am Post subject:

If you study how these relays work, the wiring becomes very basic. Current pases through two of the terminals (trigger) and it flips a switch to pass power through the other two terminals (load).

You can google "Bosch Relay Explained" and you get lots of good info.

http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/relay_basics.htm

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/relay.htm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Terminals 85 and 86 are your triggers. The blue wire is your trigger and should be connected to one of these. Terminal 30 and 87 are your load. One of these should be connected to the main battery + and one to the aux battery +. When the car is on, it will allow current to flow through the relay between the batteries. When it is off, the switch will be off and no current will flow.

Uderstanding the basics will help you wire the relay correctly.

http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/relays.html

Connections
The terminals of a relay are defined as follows:

30 is the common or input voltage to be switched.
87a is the normally closed connection. This terminal is hot when the relay isn't energized, it is unpowered the relay is energized.
87 is the normally open connection. Powered only when the relay is energized.
85 is connected to the ground of the triggering voltage.
86 is connected to the positive 12V of the triggering voltage.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:36 am Post subject:

PDX, thank you! I was sitting there yesterday thinking what the hell is under the cover, i even thought for a minute to open it and just get another one, this does help a lot. I understood right from the start that its not so complicated, but when things are wired incorrectly from the start, or at least before i arrived, it can throw you off.

Thank you very much
Todd

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:37 am Post subject:

That is a good drawing but it doesn't match the VW 5 pin fridge relay or 5 pin aux battery relay. The VW 5 pin relays don't have a pin 87a . They have 2 pins labeled 87 that are always joined together inside the relay and both connect to 30 when the relay is triggered.

Mark

PDXWesty · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:49 am Post subject:

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject:

So everything hooked up per above instructions

One question, by attaching and unattarching the blue wire (pin 86) should i see power to the aux battery cut off and then return?

Thanks todd

Timwhy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject:

With evrything connected, you should hear a click or feel a click when you touch the realy at the time you start the engine.
Make sure you are in netural!
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject:

Hmm, i am thinking after all this that my relay may in fact be bad, i am able to measure voltage going to my aux battery from the main all the time, the relay is actually supposed to prevent this correct.

Timwhy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject:

Is your key in the on position and the engine is not running?
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject:

At both times engine running engine not running the aux battery is getting power from the main, specifically pin 87

Timwhy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject:

Stuck open? Get a new relay!
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject:

Yep. Thanks

Timwhy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject:

I went thru a few of them sorting out my aux battery system.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject:

One of the batteries must be connected to the pin #30 spade of the relay and the other battery must be connected to either of the 2 pin #87 spades.

If you connected both batteries to the 2 pin #87 spades then the batteries would be connected all the time no matter what and the relay would not be at fault.

Mark

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:

Got it Mark, i will recheck my work.
Thank you again, and again, and again
Todd

thatvwbusguy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject:

Todd, you emailed me last week about using a Yandina Combiner, which is a vastly superior option. Are you now planning to use the stock relay instead? If so, why?
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

tschroeder0 · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject:

Hi Jay,

And thank you for your help. That was my poor choice of words, I thought that the stock van relay was also referred to as a yandina, so i was not actually talking about the combiner. My bad.

Although it may be the route to go if my relay is bad, i am sure this as been covered, but what makes it a better choice over stock.

I also want to thank you again for all the help, i have learned a lot in the last few days thanks to you guys!

thatvwbusguy · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject:

The Yandina is a voltage sensing automatic charging relay (ACR). It does not require any input from the van other than that the voltage in the starting battery is over 13.0V (which should be any time the engine is running) to combine and charge the auxiliary battery.

When the van is not running, the ACR will automatically separate the batteries when either one drops below 12.8V, so you can't kill the starting battery.

In a nutshell, the Yandina is a much simpler install (three wires total for installation) and will charge your auxiliary battery quicker.

If your stock relay is junk, you need to replace it with a Dual 87 Single Pole, Single Throw relay like the Bosch 332 019 150. A standard 5 pin relay from the parts place will not work properly. If you can't find one available online, I have at least one in stock that I can set you up with at a good price.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject:

Jay, he already has the factory setup, installed from the factory. What could be simpler than using or fixing what he already has? The wires are already run so the Yandina offers little in his case and could actually have reduced charging capacity over what he already has given any added wire length involved with the Yandina.

Mark


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Stock aux battery wiring/real time help
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