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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 4002 Location: Maine
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Great thanks Tim! |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6243 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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If you study how these relays work, the wiring becomes very basic. Current pases through two of the terminals (trigger) and it flips a switch to pass power through the other two terminals (load).
You can google "Bosch Relay Explained" and you get lots of good info.
http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/relay_basics.htm
http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/relay.htm
Terminals 85 and 86 are your triggers. The blue wire is your trigger and should be connected to one of these. Terminal 30 and 87 are your load. One of these should be connected to the main battery + and one to the aux battery +. When the car is on, it will allow current to flow through the relay between the batteries. When it is off, the switch will be off and no current will flow.
Uderstanding the basics will help you wire the relay correctly.
http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/relays.html
Connections
The terminals of a relay are defined as follows:
30 is the common or input voltage to be switched.
87a is the normally closed connection. This terminal is hot when the relay isn't energized, it is unpowered the relay is energized.
87 is the normally open connection. Powered only when the relay is energized.
85 is connected to the ground of the triggering voltage.
86 is connected to the positive 12V of the triggering voltage. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
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PDX, thank you! I was sitting there yesterday thinking what the hell is under the cover, i even thought for a minute to open it and just get another one, this does help a lot. I understood right from the start that its not so complicated, but when things are wired incorrectly from the start, or at least before i arrived, it can throw you off.
Thank you very much
Todd |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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That is a good drawing but it doesn't match the VW 5 pin fridge relay or 5 pin aux battery relay. The VW 5 pin relays don't have a pin 87a . They have 2 pins labeled 87 that are always joined together inside the relay and both connect to 30 when the relay is triggered.
Mark
PDXWesty wrote: |
If you study how these relays work, the wiring becomes very basic. Current pases through two of the terminals (trigger) and it flips a switch to pass power through the other two terminals (load).
..........
Terminals 85 and 86 are your triggers. The blue wire is your trigger and should be connected to one of these. Terminal 30 and 87 are your load. One of these should be connected to the main battery + and one to the aux battery +. When the car is on, it will allow current to flow through the relay between the batteries. When it is off, the switch will be off and no current will flow.
Uderstanding the basics will help you wire the relay correctly.
http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/relays.html
Connections
The terminals of a relay are defined as follows:
30 is the common or input voltage to be switched.
87a is the normally closed connection. This terminal is hot when the relay isn't energized, it is unpowered the relay is energized.
87 is the normally open connection. Powered only when the relay is energized.
85 is connected to the ground of the triggering voltage.
86 is connected to the positive 12V of the triggering voltage. |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6243 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
That is a good drawing but it doesn't match the VW 5 pin fridge relay or 5 pin aux battery relay. The VW 5 pin relays don't have a pin 87a . They have 2 pins labeled 87 that are always joined together inside the relay and both connect to 30 when the relay is triggered.
Mark
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Yes - you do need to check the bottom of the relay to see how the terminals are labeled. There are some variations to the basic configuration. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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So everything hooked up per above instructions
One question, by attaching and unattarching the blue wire (pin 86) should i see power to the aux battery cut off and then return?
Thanks todd |
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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 4002 Location: Maine
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, i am thinking after all this that my relay may in fact be bad, i am able to measure voltage going to my aux battery from the main all the time, the relay is actually supposed to prevent this correct. |
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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 4002 Location: Maine
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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At both times engine running engine not running the aux battery is getting power from the main, specifically pin 87 |
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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 4002 Location: Maine
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yep. Thanks |
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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 4002 Location: Maine
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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One of the batteries must be connected to the pin #30 spade of the relay and the other battery must be connected to either of the 2 pin #87 spades.
If you connected both batteries to the 2 pin #87 spades then the batteries would be connected all the time no matter what and the relay would not be at fault.
Mark
tschroeder0 wrote: |
Hmm, i am thinking after all this that my relay may in fact be bad, i am able to measure voltage going to my aux battery from the main all the time, the relay is actually supposed to prevent this correct. |
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Got it Mark, i will recheck my work.
Thank you again, and again, and again
Todd |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Todd, you emailed me last week about using a Yandina Combiner, which is a vastly superior option. Are you now planning to use the stock relay instead? If so, why? _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jay,
And thank you for your help. That was my poor choice of words, I thought that the stock van relay was also referred to as a yandina, so i was not actually talking about the combiner. My bad.
Although it may be the route to go if my relay is bad, i am sure this as been covered, but what makes it a better choice over stock.
I also want to thank you again for all the help, i have learned a lot in the last few days thanks to you guys! |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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The Yandina is a voltage sensing automatic charging relay (ACR). It does not require any input from the van other than that the voltage in the starting battery is over 13.0V (which should be any time the engine is running) to combine and charge the auxiliary battery.
When the van is not running, the ACR will automatically separate the batteries when either one drops below 12.8V, so you can't kill the starting battery.
In a nutshell, the Yandina is a much simpler install (three wires total for installation) and will charge your auxiliary battery quicker.
If your stock relay is junk, you need to replace it with a Dual 87 Single Pole, Single Throw relay like the Bosch 332 019 150. A standard 5 pin relay from the parts place will not work properly. If you can't find one available online, I have at least one in stock that I can set you up with at a good price. _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9920 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Jay, he already has the factory setup, installed from the factory. What could be simpler than using or fixing what he already has? The wires are already run so the Yandina offers little in his case and could actually have reduced charging capacity over what he already has given any added wire length involved with the Yandina.
Mark
thatvwbusguy wrote: |
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In a nutshell, the Yandina is a much simpler install (three wires total for installation) and will charge your auxiliary battery quicker.
If your stock relay is junk, you need to replace it with a Dual 87 Single Pole, Single Throw relay like the Bosch 332 019 150. A standard 5 pin relay from the parts place will not work properly. If you can't find one available online, I have at least one in stock that I can set you up with at a good price. |
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