Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Porsche 356 vin number charts
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Porsche - 356 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mr white
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2005
Posts: 1086
Location: beautiful Oregon
mr white is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Porsche 356 vin number charts Reply with quote

Hello all, I am trying to find a vin number chart for 356 cars like what we have here for VWs on this site under Technical. Specifically I am trying to locate this chart for pre A cars. Any help is appreciated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jjjjack
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Gainesville, FL
jjjjack is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett Johnson's books The 356 Porsche, A Restorer's Guide and Porsche 356 Defined include vin number charts.

http://www.tpr-inc.com/products/showitems.asp?Category=1

I don't know of an online version similar to the one here for VWs. The best online VIN tool is http://356a.com/

HTH,
Jack
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
roy mawbey
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2012
Posts: 382
Location: Sussex England
roy mawbey is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr White,

1). Open up www.stoddard.com

2). In the top box click 'vintage porsche parts'

3). In the drop down box click 'technical references'

4). In the box giving choices click '356 body and engine ID'

Here you will see a listing of all 356 chassis and engine numbers relating to the year of the car. ( including all 356 pre -a cars)

I suppose there is a way of copying and pasting that on here but the above should work for you.

Roy
_________________
Roy
RHD356A super75 106954
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jjjjack
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Gainesville, FL
jjjjack is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, cool, forgot about that one! One of those rare cases where I've become reliant on a book! I can't remember the last time that happened (reliant on a book, that is)....
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe


Last edited by jjjjack on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MMW
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2012
Posts: 844
Location: northern NJ
MMW is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://stoddard.com/body_engine_id.htm

Here is the direct link to the Stoddard page.

Update - Use:
http://www.stoddard.com/Werkstatte/cat/TechnicalArticles/post/bodyengineid/
_________________
Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Drew Ogden
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2004
Posts: 315
Location: Elbow Cay, Bahamas
Drew Ogden is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, based on the Stoddards link, if I am understanding correctly...there were only 19 split window cabriolets made that originally had a 1500 motor? I am basing this assumption on the starting vin of the 1500 motor being 10251 and the last split window cab being vin 10270.

The confusing thing is that it list all of the 19 cars as having a 527 motors with 40 pbic carbs. I would think they would have 546 motors with 32 pbj carbs?

Another thing thats is odd is that the starting engine number for the 1952 cabriolets seems high. My 52 cab (vin 10266) has original motor number 30242. In the 1952 1500 row which has cabs starting at 10251, it has the engines starting at 30738 (almost 500 higher than mine).

Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is the chart wrong, or am I making incorrect assumptions about my car?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mr white
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2005
Posts: 1086
Location: beautiful Oregon
mr white is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Stoddard link was just what I was after. Thank you for taking the time to help me out!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jjjjack
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Gainesville, FL
jjjjack is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew Ogden wrote:
Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is the chart wrong, or am I making incorrect assumptions about my car?


It's definitely confusing. I think the Stoddard chart is based on Brett Johnson's chart (just a guess). On Johnson's chart, though, there are a series of dashed lines that show the overlap between production year and model year. The Stoddard chart only shows production year. Your car would fall into the category of "Model 51" cars which would mean it had access to '51 1500 527 engines from 30001-30737. Does that make sense?

356a.com shows the range of 527 engines for your VIN between 30091-30278. Not sure how that is determined, but still consistent with what you have.
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Drew Ogden
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2004
Posts: 315
Location: Elbow Cay, Bahamas
Drew Ogden is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, based on the chart, there were 1500 motors in early 1952 that were not supers and had the 40pbic carbs? I didn't know that. I thought only the super motors in that era had the larger carbs...

Last edited by Drew Ogden on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jjjjack
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Gainesville, FL
jjjjack is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the same thing, but if the chart is right, all 527 1500 engines had 40pbic!
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
roy mawbey
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2012
Posts: 382
Location: Sussex England
roy mawbey is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew,
I have looked at the Stoddard 1951/1952 chart with relation to 1500cc engines and cabs. Its not so easy to understand and maybe my ideas below are not perfect at all but, this is how I see it.

1951. They did not produce cabs with 1500cc engines. They did start production of 1500cc type 527 roller bearing engines though from October of 51. The numbers 30001- 30737 seem to relate to 736 engines. ( Seems high to me.)

1952. From Jan - Nov. 1500 cc type 527 engines 30738 -30750 were produced a total of 12 engines in total. ( maybe they used from 51 stock )

The above engines were fitted to Cab chassis numbers 10251 - 10350 a total of 99 cars.

From August 52 1500cc type 546 engines with plain bearings were produced engine numbers 30751 -31025 and put in chassis numbers 12301 -12387 a total of 86 cabs.

From July 52 they introduced a 1500cc super engine type 528 with roller bearing crank serial numbers 40001 -40117 that equals 116 engines. These were put into cab chassis numbers 15001 -15050 a total of 49 cars.
This 528 engine had a compression ratio of 8.2 : 1 higher than the previous engines. Possibly the carbs fitted to the cars then were of a standard type but using different jets.

This is how I read the chart. Please understand I could well be of track here. If I am I really would like to know what actually tookm place all those years ago.

My brother had a 1300cc 1951 car chassis 10964 and engine 20620 which is listed fine, and our 52 car chassis 11789 with 1500cc engine 30988 also was correct on the chart. Our cars were coupe's though.

Roy
_________________
Roy
RHD356A super75 106954
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve Heinrichs
Samba Member


Joined: May 01, 2012
Posts: 407
Location: Califonia
Steve Heinrichs is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Aluminum Sport Roadsres ("America Roadsters") had 1500ccm motors.

Steve Heinrichs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
jjjjack
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Gainesville, FL
jjjjack is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a snippet from Brett Johnson's chart, showing the model year delineations.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Model '51 is from mid-March 1951 through February of 1952.
Model '52 is from March 1952 through September of 1952.
Model '53 is from October 1952 through March of 1954.

The way I read the chart as far as 527 1500 engines is this: starting in October of '51 until November of '52 736 engines were produced and available to cars produced during that period and called Model 51 cars (including cabs like Drew's). Until November of '52 12 527 1500 engines were produced (30728-30750) that went into later cars, possibly depleting the stock until the 546 1500 became the base 1500. That's the only way I can make sense of the 12 527s that are listed in '52. It doesn't make sense to me that 736 engines were produced in 3 months in '51, while 12 were produced in 10 months in '52 (the other way to read the chart). Production of 527s and 546s overlapped by 3 months during '52. Based on the dates BJ provides, 527s continued to be produced for a month after Model 52 production ceased and were even available for early '53 model cars.

Here's a little timeline showing the relative production dates based on Brett Johnson's book:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My car is a similar example, in that it was produced in '54 but the engine serial falls in the range of numbers that began production in '53. To me, leaving out the model year info on the Stoddard chart really confuses things. Time was a continuum Smile

Just my reading of the chart, though....certainly could be wrong! The COA/Kardex is the final arbiter.
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe


Last edited by jjjjack on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
roy mawbey
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2012
Posts: 382
Location: Sussex England
roy mawbey is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jack, your advice does clarify some things and Steve's note about the America roadsters does show you really need exact info to be sure.

I have just just noticed in my hard back Stoddard catalog, that they do give thanks to Brett Johnson for his input on their chart and that further info is also available in the book he wrote.

Roy
_________________
Roy
RHD356A super75 106954
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve Heinrichs
Samba Member


Joined: May 01, 2012
Posts: 407
Location: Califonia
Steve Heinrichs is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of driving this into the ground (and I am not fully following this thread):

The America Roadsters all had 40xxx motors except the first one which received 30250. (See page 206 of the Typ 540 book).

Figuring out all the 1500 cc motors is possible and I'd be pleased to help but, at the moment, is there a detailed question or is this just about roughly how many in which set of cars?

Ciao,

Steve Heinrichs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Mr. Okrasa Premium Member
Original Old Speed


Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 568
Location: East L.A., (the bad area with guns!) So. Califas.
Mr. Okrasa is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjjjack wrote:

The way I read the chart as far as 527 1500 engines is this: starting in October of '51 until November of '52 736 engines were produced and available to cars produced during that period and called Model 51 cars

I sold a split cab. 10105 / eng. P-30023 / 1500cc / 527 that was produced on Aug. 20th, 1951 so we know that the 527 engs. were not started in Oct. 1951. By the same token, I currently own split cab. 10188 / eng. P-30108 / 1500cc / 527 that was produced on Feb. 2nd, 1952. I currently have eng. P-30612 / 527 for sale. Im looking at the Split Window Registry chart and the last Split Reutter Cab. was #10270 but shows no engine number.
_________________


See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/

1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint Wink
See this link: https://vimeo.com/139432553

VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jjjjack
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Gainesville, FL
jjjjack is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Okrasa wrote:
jjjjack wrote:

The way I read the chart as far as 527 1500 engines is this: starting in October of '51 until November of '52 736 engines were produced and available to cars produced during that period and called Model 51 cars

I sold a split cab. 10105 / eng. P-30023 / 1500cc / 527 that was produced on Aug. 20th, 1951 so we know that the 527 engs. were not started in Oct. 1951.


Cool, great info...a month and half earlier! Shocked

Mr. Okrasa wrote:
By the same token, I currently own split cab. 10188 / eng. P-30108 / 1500cc / 527 that was produced on Feb. 2nd, 1952.


And that confirms that the engine numbers listed in '51 on the Stoddard chart were going into cars produced in '52.
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MMW
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2012
Posts: 844
Location: northern NJ
MMW is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My direct link in an above post has been changed & it won't let me edit it. Here is the new one.

http://www.stoddard.com/Werkstatte/cat/TechnicalArticles/post/bodyengineid/
_________________
Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
James Davies
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Baltimore, USA
James Davies is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conradt writes in "Driving in its Purest Form" that in July 20-24, 1951 the Porsche high-ups discussed how the 1300 was their bread and butter, and that marketing would determine how many 1100 and 1500 motors would need to be produced for the coming year (1952). They had started development on the 1500 earlier in '51.

In August 1951 a Gmund coupe with a 1500 wins its class at Liege-Rome-Liege. In Sep 29-Oct 4, 1951, Porsche does some record runs at Montlhéry near Paris, and one of the Gmund coupes was fitted with a 1500 Type 502 motor utilizing a Hirth crank, Fuhrmann's new camshaft (not the VW cam used on the 1.1 and 1.3 liters), Solex 40 PBICs and 1:7.4 compression ratio.

Conradt thinks the Type 527 appeared in production in March 1952. A reviewer in Auto Motor und Sport test-drove a 1500 powered car for the the May 1952 issue. It was a Type 527 with Solex 32 PBIC carbs. But it seems that engine appeared earlier as we've read above.

Does anyone think there might be confusion between Type 502 and Type 527 motors in the secondary sources we have? Authors assume early 1500 motors were 527s when in reality they could have been the earlier 502s? Do we know what engine numbers covered the Type 502 engines? Has anyone ever seen one?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mr. Okrasa Premium Member
Original Old Speed


Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 568
Location: East L.A., (the bad area with guns!) So. Califas.
Mr. Okrasa is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Davies wrote:
In August 1951 a Gmund coupe with a 1500 wins its class at Liege-Rome-Liege. In Sep 29-Oct 4, 1951, Porsche does some record runs at Montlhéry near Paris, and one of the Gmund coupes was fitted with a 1500 Type 502 motor utilizing a Hirth crank, Fuhrmann's new camshaft (not the VW cam used on the 1.1 and 1.3 liters), Solex 40 PBICs and 1:7.4 compression ratio.

Can anyone show where is the text/info. that is saying that a "502" engine exists and if so, what are its components that make it "different" than a "527" engine? Cheers. Cool
_________________


See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/

1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint Wink
See this link: https://vimeo.com/139432553

VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Porsche - 356 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB