Anyone have a pressure plate suddenly go south in their bus?

[wcfvw69]

In the last week or two, my clutch pedal has gotten easier to push in. The clutch doesn't slip but it seems like it's not as easy to shift into gears as it was in the past. The clutch doesn't engage or disengage as crisply as in the past. The best way I can describe it is it feels like the springs in the pressure plate have suddenly gone soft?! The clutch pedal just doesn't feel right. No change in when the clutch engages or disengages as far as clutch pedal travel. My bugs clutches work great. You can feel the pressure plate engage and disengage.

I've included two older pictures of the clutch and pressure plate. I didn't inspect it during disassembly in the past but it looks like the Sachs German 3 arm pressure plate. I have no idea how old or how many miles are on it. This was on the bus when I bought it in 2014.

Who's making good clutches and pressure plates these days? I'm getting a spring loaded disc this time as well. Sach's still good? I see most Sach's pressure plates are made in Brazil or the pricy ones say they are made in Germany.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[airschooled]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Bill. I would first suspect the cable; if one strand or two break, it will get softer in the pedal feel, and not release the input shaft completely.

As far as pressure plates going bad, I have had a Brazilian Sachs plate grenade on me at 65mph on Interstate 10 where it joins the 17 around Jefferson. Pure violence and vibration through the entire chassis, plus the pedal would only go half way down before grinding.

That being said, once all the crap dislodged itself from the pressure plate, I clutched the entire Phoenix Light Parade and then some, all the way back home to Tempe.

Good luck!
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com

[wcfvw69]

Thanks Robbie.

I don't think it's the clutch cable but anythings possible. I bought a German one about 8k miles ago and refreshed the clutch pedal assembly and installed a new Bowden tube. I just can't feel the pressure plate engage or disengage like my other VW's and the pedal pressure to push down is easier.. Odd..

I've never sustained a failed clutch cable but would think it would impact the clutch pedal travel? Yes/no?

It's just odd to me as I started noticing the clutch wasn't feeling the same about 2 weeks ago and have been focused on it since. With the motor off, I can shift between the gears easily. With it running, it's not as easy which points to the pressure plate in my mind. The clutch disc was about 1/2 worn when I had it out last about 5k miles ago.

It's a bummer as you just don't know what to replace when you buy a new to you used VW. The clutch felt good when I bought the bus so I didn't think to change the pressure plate or clutch after inspection. I guess I need to stop my crying as I've put close to 10k miles on them..
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[Stuartzickefoose]

Tightening the cable 2-3 maybe 5 turns and testing feel is a lot easier then a engine pull. Try it first.
_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]

[richparker]

I'm with Robbie. Pull the cable for inspection and inspect the Bowden tube before you drop the engine.

I have had that feeling before and it was the eye-hole on the cable. The hook wore through the hole causing the clutch to feel soft.

I sure do like my KEP stage 1, smooth and engauges like you wouldn't believe. It might be over kill for your full flowed 1776 DP, but it sure is nice.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[Tom Powell]

I've been through three or four clutch cable failures. The strands break one by one over a period of time. As they break, the cable stretches more before moving the clutch and it feels like the clutch is getting softer. Eventually the pedal will get lower as the cable stretches with fewer usable strands, but that may take a month of driving before it is noticeable.

Buy a new cable of the correct length and install it. If the present cable turns out to be OK, keep it as a spare. If a cable breaks out on the road, putting the driver's side wheels up on a curb will make the job easier. Tying a string to the old cable before you pull it out makes the installation and routing of the new cable a pull in the dark. Clutch cables break in cold weather and it's no fun installing a new one lying in snow and ice. BTDTx3

Aloha
tp

[djdh68dlux]

[borninabus]

sure-fire test for the PP & disc is to pull up to a nice tall curb and let the clutch out in 3rd and/or 4th gear.
it should stall, right?
if it doesn't, then you know something's wrong.

hard to suspect the disc & PP when you say it's not slipping, but this test is quick & easy.
spring failures on that type of PP is why manufacturers have switched to the diaphragm style...just saying.
also, the sprung disc is the way to go. i've had both.

anywho, get a look at the front of the cable, clevis & arm.
this is where failures normally occur.
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[wcfvw69]

Well heck.. I guess before I drop a buck fifty on new clutch parts, I'll invest the 15 minutes to pull the clutch cable and inspect it. I would of thought is the cable strands were breaking, it would of caused the pedal to get closer to the floor before engaging. I bought the bowden tube and German clutch cable and pedal hook from Wolfsburg West in 2014. These parts have close to 10k miles on them.

In 30+ years of VW ownership, I can't recall a clutch pedal ever getting easier to push in or depress. I remember installing a new Sachs pressure plate and clutch in my 69 bug 15 years ago. A massive difference in how the clutch felt in a good way. You could clearly feel the plate engage and disengage..
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[kreemoweet]

3-arm pressure plate failure, very sudden: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493075&highlight=
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[wcfvw69]

[timvw7476]

check the bracket too,
in 21 years of bus driving, I've lost
two frayed cables & one "torn" cable perch.
It just started to tear & get closer to the arm,
felt just like a frayed cable too.

[Wildthings]

[Stuartzickefoose]

Why can't you all be like Robbie and just pull the engine like a strapping young lad in five minutes and then find the broken part, fix it with unicorn hair and dragon blood and reassemble and call it good as NOS and put a new part under the back seat for when it finally fails permanently?

_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]

[wcfvw69]

[Stuartzickefoose]

Exactly a buck 25 and a few hours. What's the point in not? Like brakes, quick and cheap to do
_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]

[wcfvw69]

I'm going to fill in the blanks on this thread for future readers if they search this problem.

SO, I pulled the clutch cable out. It's looks fine, no broken strands on either end or in the middle. Bowden tube still looks new. The cable hook on the pedal still looks new as well. With the engine removed, the throw out bearing arms looks perfect and new as well as it and it's bushing were changed during the trans overhaul 2 years ago. It's arms are welded all around.

Here's my suspect pressure plate mounted after the engine pull.

It's a reman pressure plate. From what decade who knows? The brand is LUX or LUK? It looks really old and my guess is it's shot and is causing my weak clutch pedal feel and engagement.

The Sachs rigid clutch disc still looks fairly new. It does look like it was only contacting on the outside of the disc.

Flywheel looks great.

I popped off the flywheel to install a new main seal and oring in the flywheel. When I put it back together. I decided to "quickly" check the end play. Um yea, not so quickly. I couldn't get any end play. I was puzzled. The flywheel came off and I inspected the shims. All looked great. I screwed around with it for 2.5 hours. I rotated the engine backwards at one point. I then rotated it around to find the sweet spot to get maximum free play. It still didn't seem right.

I called Robbie for a sanity check. I'd read a couple of threads on tight end play before ringing Robbie. One said you should rotate the engine to find the sweet spot w/the rods, and distributor pinion. Either way, it was reassembled a final time and I have 3.5 thousandth of play. So, yea. It was spot on before I screwed with it.. Robbie and figured it was probably the pinion gear slightly binding and when I rotated it, they aligned again.
Thanks again Robbie for brain storming this with me.

I bolted up the Japanese made Sachs spring clutch disc and Sachs Brazilian sprung pressure plate. I'll post one final time after the road test tomorrow.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[wcfvw69]

Oh, and the pilot bearing was fine also. I did change it since I had a new one.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[wcfvw69]

Final recap-

Removed the German clutch cable to inspect it or breaking strands and the clutch hook. Both looked brand new and were only two years old. Pulled the engine and found a reman Luk pressure plate from who know what decade. It looked really old. The clutch disc was a rigid Sachs unit that was barely worn.

I regreased the clutch cable and hook and reinstalled it. I installed a new Sachs spring clutch disc and a new Sachs spung pressure plate along with a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing.

After the engine tormented me for too long to slide back into place, I buttoned it up and drove it. WOW.. night and day difference in how the clutch feels now. It feels amazing. So, clearly that old, remanned pressure plate was going south.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[airschooled]

Excellent news about the end play!

Bummer about the pressure plate. I have walked through the valley of the diaphragm pressure plate. I fear no three-arm plates: thy art with me; thy ease of use and lack of hypertension comfort me.

Book of Robbie, 2:23
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com