Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Turn Brand New Rotors or Drums Before Installation?
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  

Turn New Rotors or Drums Before Installation?
Always
26%
 26%  [ 8 ]
Never
33%
 33%  [ 10 ]
Only If Needed
40%
 40%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 30

Author Message
Forthwithtx
Samba Member


Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 667
Location: Fort Worth
Forthwithtx is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:04 pm    Post subject: Turn Brand New Rotors or Drums Before Installation? Reply with quote

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm only trying to understand.

I don't believe I have ever heard of routinely re-cutting brand new rotors or drums before installation. First time was here on The Samba, and then repeatedly.

My basic question concerning truing up brand new brake rotors or drums before installation is, what has changed in the geometry of the part since it was originally cut? Or rather, what would cause the part to change over time?

I'm thinking that heat cycling (using them) would be the best way to bring out any internal stresses within a casting and then later truing it up, if needed. My rear drums are, in fact, creating a pulsing under my foot, but it came on only after several miles of driving.

So, I Googled the subject:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/873402-do-new-rotors-require-turning-before-installation.html

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/18-maintenance-detailing/13419-should-you-turn-new-rotors.html

Concensus=No.

Your thoughts?

Please, not asking for argument. Rationale for any stance, if you wish, but please don't jump on someone else's response.
_________________
Cheers!
-Karl

'84 GL with 2001/2004 Subaru 2.5L

Add your general location to the Vanagonauts Pin Map: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=633618
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15357
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two words...quality control....it sucks with some of the parts that are remanufactured for Vanagons.

Put the "new" parts on a machine and see how "off" they are.

Plenty of threads here where "new" brake parts = pulsating pedal.

This is one of the reasons why.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 9099
Location: Riviera Beach, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quality parts should not require any machining out of the box. Unfortunately it seems some quality is missing from these aftermarket parts. For the fronts it is easy enough to install the rotor and attach a dial indicator and measure any run out. The drums not so easy. You need to ensure the hub face is clean before installing the new drum.

One thing that is important is actually torqueing the lug bolts to spec. My friend had a vanagon in his shop and had a problem with some new rear drums. In the end, the only way to get them true, was to remove the rear hubs, and machine the drums assembled to the hubs with the lugs torqued.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15357
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing is being "cut" if the "new" parts check out.

"Check" being the term to understand here.

Bolt on and go is not recommended.

Think of it another way...
which would you rather have for the money...
A "rebuilt" motor or one with blue printed parts???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Member


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 5853
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted "only if needed".

I put new SA drums on the rear of my van. Other than it taking a few tries to get the pads perfectly dialed in, no issues whatsoever and the drums weren't turned upon receipt of them.

The new GW Bigger Brake rotors, on the other hand, have been an issue. One had to be returned, and the replacement has been "thumping" for a year now. Looked into having the rotor metal tested, but it's ungodly expensive. Allegedly, the original pads are the issue. Time will tell; next GW purchase I'll be requesting a set of replacement pads that they've been issuing.

I don't know what it is with Vanagon parts, but none of the brake rotors/drums for my other two VW's have ever had issues out of the box (Cabriolet owned for 26 years, Jetta for 16 years). Until I dipped myself into Vanagonland, I'd never heard of turning brand new brakes. In fact, my Cabriolet has relatively new drums (mileage-wise) and brand new front rotors... all 4 were straight-out-of-the-box bolt-ons without a single, solitary issue (car stops on a dime!). There again, both the Cabriolet and the Jetta got Brembo rotors (Cabriolet drums are Zimmerman); perhaps that's the difference.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15357
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Kam, my experience has shown that Vanagon owners ask for low cost parts and they get them.

Most other groups ask for top quality and get it.

YGWYPF....you get what you pay for...ask for.

I have a supplier that makes custom rotors...top notch stuff, drilled, vented, treated...
I run them and have had conversion rotors made.
We are talking three to four times the cost of the ones found at the major Vanagon vendors.
I will gladly order more and get them out for people to see the difference, but again, three to four times the cost and quantities must be ordered to even bring them down $20.
Pmail please if interested, but I will need a minimum of 10 sets, prepaid, before an order can be placed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 9905
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted always

after going through 2 brake upgrades the rotors were a horrible amount off.
and the pads will bed in and keep the hi-lo rhythm going.
in my case it was handy to have a toolmaker nearby who was involved in the big brake upgrade hiself well not really bigger.. same O-diam but ventillated rotors was the target..
_________________
Click here for -->Upstate NY VW show Sun August 13th info
The only cheap thing in a classic VW sits behind the steering wheel
THE List ala Sanchius
syncroserge wrote:
The way these vans have shaped and enriched our family life would make one believe these darn things have a soul Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15357
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Powerstop used to make drilled rotors for Vanagons.
Used to...I feel because so much hemming and hawing over price was had that they and the vendors stopped with the whole shooting match.

Now we have products that need attention before being mounted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 6471
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Zimmerman rotors I just installed on my '02 Jetta TDI said specifically not to turn them before the initial installation and not to remove the anti-corrosion coating.
_________________
Please do not send me an PM's. I will not receive or respond to them. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15357
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zimmerman's are A+++ quality.
I have one set left that match the Gilling 60 dual piston calipers perfectly when mounted to a Syncro.

And now, they discontinued them Evil or Very Mad

Hence my custom made rotors for this application.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13469

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless what I paid for drums or rotors ,regardless where they came from,
I make a phone call ahead to the parts emporium and have a fast pass run over them.
I don't have a brake lathe, and don't want to go back after the fact.
Twice the work, twice the hassle.

It sure isn't big money.
_________________
T.K.

"Ingorance Is A Powerful Tool If applied at The Right Time, Even Usually Surpassing Knowledge"
(E.J. Potter)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 19696
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Vote? Only if needed...... Here's why..........

Rear drums......
I chose to run a set of Centric drums #122.3308
8,000 miles, no problems.

Front rotors..... Italian ....
Flawless, no turning needed.

BREMBO

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
I HATE PHOTOBUCKET!!!!!!

86 Vanagon Westy "Weekender" 2.1 Auto
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Karmann Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473


Last edited by djkeev on Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thatvwbusguy
Samba Member


Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1669
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
thatvwbusguy is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally use Brembo and have had good luck with them. I have had a couple that needed to be turned right out of the box however...
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
VANAGON HEADLIGHT RELAYS & HARD START RELAYS

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13469

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harland & Wolff was a well respected manufacture at one time.

Took 4 years to produce most of it's products.

It took only 3 hours for one of their most renouned items to self destruct.

Nothing is perfect.

I have the rotors & drums checked regardless of who made them, how much you spent.
_________________
T.K.

"Ingorance Is A Powerful Tool If applied at The Right Time, Even Usually Surpassing Knowledge"
(E.J. Potter)


Last edited by Terry Kay on Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newfisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1780
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
newfisher is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why risk it? It just proves Insyncros theory about cheap parts seeking vehicle owners. I have worked for GM for over 20 years and now run a shop in the independent field. I have seen EVERYONES rotors and drums.

Would you just drink the unknown milk from some one else's fridge or sniff it first?

Have the rotors and drums installed on the machine, if the bit doesn't touch it, then you are good to go....takes 5 min.

If the bit machines of some material in a certain spot(s), well....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 19696
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trouble for some of us is the changing field of auto repair.

Where I live, I've watched auto machine shop after auto machine shop slowly vanish. There is no market, or a minuscule market, for auto machine work today.
This is an affluent area, or at least an area where people want you to think they are well off, as a result, older cars simply don't exist in any large numbers.

Late model BMW's, MB's, Lexus, Acura, Toyota, you name it, they are here but they are new and largely leased from what I understand.
Dealer maintained until the lease is up or they are out of warranty, traded in and shipped off to some "poor" neighboring State for resale.

I don't even know who has a brake lathe any longer.

Dave
_________________
I HATE PHOTOBUCKET!!!!!!

86 Vanagon Westy "Weekender" 2.1 Auto
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Karmann Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13469

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen.

One ounce of investigation, prevents a pound of problems.

Another common sense process of elimination.
_________________
T.K.

"Ingorance Is A Powerful Tool If applied at The Right Time, Even Usually Surpassing Knowledge"
(E.J. Potter)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13469

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy,

Oreillys has a brake lathe.
Napa has them.
Ask prior to buying any brake hardware would be the simple way of solving this one.
_________________
T.K.

"Ingorance Is A Powerful Tool If applied at The Right Time, Even Usually Surpassing Knowledge"
(E.J. Potter)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15357
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't make me happy to be right in this case, but I have dealt with plenty of Vanagons and Vanagon owners.

Hydraulic cylinders get bench tested and bleed before install, rotors and drums checked, shoot, I check everything that comes into the shop now.

I spend quite a bit of time sending parts back, unfortunately.

For anyone paying for labor, I don't understand why you would fight for just bolting a part on.
This will end up costing you more in labor, added shipping, down time????

As Newfisher has said, this "check" takes 5 minutes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 19696
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys may think I am kidding or ignorant?

My local NAPA? No longer makes hydraulic hoses or has a machine shop. I Wanted some Plastigage this Summer for mine was old and dry.
Their answer? "No one does that kind of work any more, we stopped carrying it years ago."
I drove 30 miles one way to get some and even at that there was much staff discussion before an old timer produced a few sleeves of it!

In my area we have many specialist that handle your life needs..... multiple competing companies that are hired solely to pick up your dogs crap. "Doody Calls" is one.
Companies to clean out your gutters....
Decorate your home for Christmas....
Etc, etc, etc

Its a very different weird world here...... No one does anything or fixes anything, just get a new one.

On the other hand, this Summer at my Daughters home in Great Falls Montana I did some work on the Van.
I'd kill to have the Great Falls NAPA in New Jersey!

Dave
_________________
I HATE PHOTOBUCKET!!!!!!

86 Vanagon Westy "Weekender" 2.1 Auto
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Karmann Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473


Last edited by djkeev on Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2016, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB