Syncro - to lift or not to lift, that is the question.

[kirsplat]

Here's a good suspension package to consider...

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1795_1236/trail_master_syncro_suspension_kit_by_maas.html

Kirk from Northwesty just installed this setup on his rig so he could give you his opinion.
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86 Syncro|EJ253|Carat

[WestyBob]

[whynotvw]

[Brianfromutah]

[Jon_slider]

> Kinda reluctant to highjack this thread

you have my permission to give ride height when you talk about lift

> Westy Syn -- Nokian 205x65R15 tires -- @ 18.25 "

> Tintop Syn -- Nokian 205x65R16 tires -- @18.75"

> Sinka Syn (stock suspension) -- BFG 27x8.5x14 -- @18.75"

help me out the WestySyn is NOT lifted right? and rides at 18.25"

the TintopSyn is lifted 1.5" and ended up at 18.75??

the SinkaSyn is not lifted and is also at 18.75??

let me put it this way. IF your van is not at or above 19.5", I dont consider it significantly lifted.

> It lifted about 2-2.5 inches I wish I added the spacers in the rear.

You can still add the spacers in the rear, not a big job..

what ARE your ride heights, all 4 corners? You might need 2 shims on driver rear and one on passenger rear..

Its really really useful when you say you lifted 2", to give a number you ended up at.. PLEASE!

> What of the fox shocks I see from GoWesty

I have them, with GW +2 springs. I dont like that the warranty depends on GW repairing, they wont replace.. Yes they are for offroad, I would buy the Trailmaster System instead.

but I liked my OME shocks with old .org springs ride better than my GW setup, less body roll.

My Syncro Westy TDi, weighs over 5000 pounds, and has a motor and tire on the back that add 500 lbs over stock. Rear ride height is 21", with a 3" spacer on the driver rear, and a 2" spacer on passenger rear. See without spacers I would be at 19" or less, again, my heavy rig..

ps People with "stock" Syncros, including BrianfromUtah, could you post your current ride heights, all 4 corners, so we can begin to determine what "stock" is.

btw, tires do not matter for "ride height" (actually feder height) measurement. Tires do increase ground clearance.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[bosruten]

No complaints.

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'87 Syncro Weekender

[whynotvw]

[Jon_slider]

> 1. front: center of the wheels to bottom of the lip 20"

> 2. rear: center of the wheels to bottom of the lip 19 half inches

great details, thanks!
I see you have a rear mounted tire carrier, which explains the need for a shim in the rear

And when you shim the rear the front will drop a little from the pressure increase at the back.. should be just about perfect, maybe 20" rear, 19.75" front, from adding a single 1/2" shim, possibly only needed at the spare tire side, driver rear

note, changes to driver rear spring height, affects the passenger front, the force moves diagonally. You need to measure each corner, or you may end up with the driver front being taller ride height than passenger front, same in rear..

for example, you may need 2 shims driver rear, and one shim passenger rear, to make your front wheels match ride height to each other..

I dont expect an exact match rear to front, I actually like the rear 1/2" higher than the front.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[DeadSetMonkey]

[WestyBob]

[Jon_slider]

> The westy and tintop syncros have the upgraded suspensions ... OME and either syncro.org or smallcar springs.

excellent info, so your vans have
18.25" ride height on a lifted westy syncro and
18.75" ride height on a lifted tin top syncro

and BFG 215x75x15 tires (27.8" diam), add 1" more ground clearance

A friend has a Syncro Westy with new GW +2 springs and OME shocks., his rear ride height is 19.5".

He has BFG 215x75x15 tires, and his ground clearance is 12".

I think a lifted syncro paired with 28" tires is a reasonable configuration, not extreme.

But it is certainly not for everybody. It costs in fuel mileage, and you need to buy a spare tire carrier too.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[WestyBob]

[Brianfromutah]

westy syncro 2.5 suby engine stock springs/shocks (24 yr old)
RF 18 1/2
LF 18 1/4
RR 18 1/4
LR 18

sags 1/4 to the left and 1/4 inch in the rear.

I bought 2" GW springs but judging from what i have read so far anything over 19 1/2 ride height is no good without other mods. I would like to sit right at 19 1/2. seems like the GW springs lift it to about 20"

Original idea was much like deadsetmonkeys in the idea that the new springs would improve handling (at least a little over the 24 yr old sagging springs) also i love the look of the 2" lift, and i wanted it to be a bit more capable off road. I am now thinking smallcar springs with either new OEM or OME shocks. I also want the van to be able to drive across the country on the highway if needed. Small Car claims about a 19 1/2 inch ride height on a syncro westy with suby power. Seems to be a good compromise to me.

Anyone want to buy a set of brand new never used GW 2" lift springs?
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'89 Westy Syncro w/ '09 Subaru 2.5

[bosruten]

[syncrodoka]

They don't list that size BFG A/T.
The rim size isn't the issue but the overall diameter of the rim with tire is.

[Jon_slider]

> I'm sticking with a 14" rim on a Hankook using the clamshell.

> I run BFG A/T 215 75 16

It overheats the Viscous Coupler (about $1500 installed) if you run tires that are not the same size on a Syncro.

In your case, I think your spare is 2" smaller diameter.

IF you had a decoupler ($2000+ installed), you could run a mismatched spare. A decoupler costs more than a tire carrier ($600-$1100, plus install).

I dont recommend mismatched tires on a Syncro, my approach is to keep all 5 tires in rotation, including the spare.

One of the BEST reasons to get larger rims, is to fit a Big Brake Upgrade ($900 plus install)
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[bosruten]

[syncrodoka]

[syncrodoka]

[Jon_slider]

to lift or not to lift

go for 2" lift plus 28" tires if
1. You want Bigger Front Disk brakes
2. You have thousands of dollars to spend on rims, tires, springs, tire carrier.
3. You drive offroad and need more ground clearance
4. You don't mind losing 10% of your horsepower to taller tires, because you have a conversion motor.

not to lift
1. No need to buy spare tire carrier, no need to buy springs, no need to buy new wheels and tires.

If you want the "badass" look, put some 14" BFG AT tires on, and call it good. Everything else will stay the same, fits in the spare location, power and acceleration are stock, and chicks still won't look at your van, guys will.

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> How would having a slightly smaller OD tire on the rear damage my VC?

slightly would be a couple millimeters, not a couple inches like you seem to have.. but, don't worry, if you don't get a flat, it won't matter
IF you run a smaller tire on back, it engages the VC more, making it hotter, which can ruin it.
http://www.vanagon.com/syncros/faq/syncro-faq.htm
How does the Vanagon Syncro's viscous coupling work?

The viscous coupling is constructed of a series of metal plates. Half the plates, (plates 1, 3, 5, 7, etc.) are connected to the input drive shaft coming froward from the transmission. The other half of the plates (plates 2, 4, 6, 8, etc.) are connected to the front differential. These plates are enclosed in a chamber with a very unusual silicon fluid. When the rear wheels and front wheels are moving at the same speed, all the plates move at the same speed, nothing special happens, and little power is transmitted through the coupling. But, when the rear wheels begin to lose traction and spin, the plates connected to the driveshaft begin to spin faster than the plates connected to the front differential. This causes a shearing action in the silicon fluid, which almost instantly heats and thickens, becoming much more viscous. This now highly viscous fluid locks the two sets of plates together and power is transmitted to the front differential and thus the front wheels. VW says this happens as quickly as 1/4 turn of the spinning rear tire.

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http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/viscous_couplings_vanagon_syncro.htm

"As for the reason why the silicone in the viscous coupling gets too
stiff and starts causing trouble the people I asked unanimously
answered: to much strain. However, this is not referring to relentless
off road driving in groundless mud, but rather to small but permanent
differences in rotational speed between front and rear axle while doing
normal on road driving. These differences in rotational speed can be
caused by such things as unequal tire wear or different tire pressure.
Tire diameters should be the same within a 2 to 4 mm tolerance. Or, in
other words, if you're measuring the depths of the grooves in your
tires, the differences should not exceed 1 to 2 mm.

Thus people not caring tire pressure and tire wear, people having
mounted different tire brands on the front and rear axles, as well as
people never routinely using their spare tire so it gets worn roughly
the same way as the other tires are most probably ruining their viscous
coupling pretty fast."

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Rotating Syncro tires

http://www.vanagon.com/syncros/technica/tire-rotation/index.htm
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco