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themachineshop - [email protected] - Martin Willis
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Ian
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: themachineshop - [email protected] - Martin Willis Reply with quote

Ok....where to start.....

First and foremost, take this information and make your own decisions, I have already made mine....

As you all know I have been an active Samba member for the last 10 years and have gotten to meet a lot of people because of it. I have learned a lot, and the information offered here is seriously priceless, and guess what, it's offered at one simple price, FREE. I have and will continue to provide as much knowledge and learn as much as I possibly can from the great community we have built here. I would not want any one of you to go through the pain and headache that me and my best friend have been going through since October 2012 because of this person. Sometimes words can not describe feelings, and trust me, I can only describe my feelings for this person as contempt, hatred, anger, and disrespect.

A couple years ago I was going through motors left and right in my Bus. One shady rebuild led to a series of junkyard motors. During the course of the cheap motors I bought an unknown size motor which was advertised on here from another Samba member just up the road. Drove up there in my Bus which had a burned piston at the time, and I paid $350 for it and it was sweet. Red painted tin, Weber Progressive, dual port, deep sump and full flow. It really ran out and my Bus scooted up the hills!! I went down to hang out with my buddy Rob Cress in Colorado Springs and traded him some 944 Turbo brakes for my current air compressor. I didn't know it at the time, but that was the last time I would ever see my buddy Rob. Anyway, he needed some link-pin parts that I had, so I decided to go hang out with him again the next day. As I was driving, the engine lost a sump stud on the highway and locked up. I had it towed to my shop and just mailed the link-pin parts down to Rob, no biggie. From now on I will never run a deep sump!! I let my Bus sit and drove my $300 beater Rabbit until I bought a whole Baja Bug and pulled the motor out of it for my Bus, and sold the Bug. At one point I needed a pair of cylinder heads, so I took them off the locked up mystery motor and found out it was a 1915cc, cool.

Fast forward a year and a half...My best friend, Leif's, Baja Bug is running on 3 cylinders and we can't figure it out. Ok, motor tear down time. We get it torn apart and the case is pounded out hard and the cam gear teeth are totally shredded off. So, we start tearing cores apart that I have. I know that I have that old locked up 1915cc, perfect! We get it torn apart down to the engine case and start researching what to do to it. We decided I'm going to build it, with Leif doing the legwork and parts hunting. The case already was welded behind #3, full flowed, case savers, decked, and opened up for 94mm p/c's. We read in an old Hot VW's about shuffle-pinning the engine case for ultimate strength. We asked around to our local trusted machine shops, but they didn't do shuffle-pinning. I remembered seeing an ad on here for machine work in 'the Springs and I remembered the name, Martin Willis. We got his phone number off his website, http://www.mwthemachineshop.com/. My friend Leif called him and made arrangements to ship the engine case down. When Leif spoke with him, he said he had the jigs for the Type 1 and knew all about it, he quoted $140 for shuffle-pinning and $40 for a case cleaning. A typed note was delivered with the engine case including a return address, and instructions to have a thorough inspection done to make sure it did not require an align bore and that it would be buildable as is BEFORE being shuffle-pinned, pretty much standard operating procedure; but ya know, just in case, we included instructions. As well, we wrote that the center main had locked up on the crankshaft when it lost oil in it's previous life. The engine case was already stamped 40 + 1 on the top seam indicating a .040 over and first cut thrust (.040) The bearings, which I still have, measured the same. Engine case was shipped on October 26, 2012 to Martin Willis The Machine Shop.

A couple weeks go by, Martin calls my friend Leif and says that his "jig" wouldn't fit in the bearing saddles and he didn't realize it was already 40 over. He stated that he would need to make custom 1mm shims to fit his "jig" and stated that it would be an additional $50 Leif's cost. We became very leery of what was going on at this point, as normally someone would know from the stamping on the case or initial measurements from inspection what the case was cut at. Another couple weeks go by and Martin calls Leif again and says that the shuffle-pinning looks great but the case now needs to be align bored. I basically lost all hope in Martin at this point and knew something was up. Leif called and left a voice-mail which requested to have the align bore fit Silverline, or similar steel-backed, bearings. After the work was done for the align bore and the bearings, Leif called Martin and asked if it was ready. He apologized for not calling sooner and said the work was perfect. Leif gave him his credit card number and paid for the machine work services and new bearing set and return shipping which totaled $338. The case was shipped back.

I received the case at my shop on December 4th, 2012 and immediately upon opening noticed that the center main was not sitting correctly. There was a visible gap between the two halves of the case and the two halves did not line up. There was a problem. Upon opening the box I noticed that the bubble wrap was between the case halves, so I thought maybe that was the issue. I opened up the case and removed the bubble wrap and it still had the same gap. Upon further inspection, I noticed that there was an incorrect washer smashed and stuck on one of the M12 stud holes, incorrect hardware while torquing down for an align bore, alright..? We used a hammer and a little screw driver to pop it off. The case surfaces were double checked and some very small pieces of sealant were removed to ensure a no-gap seal. The engine case was extremely clean. Then the case was torqued down with the correct hardware and reinspected. At this point, we did plenty of searching on the forums and found out how to inspect for warpage. We shined a flashlight from the back and looked at it from the front and there was a very obvious gap below and above the center main bearing saddle. When we put the dowel pins in and put the bearing halves in, both of them stuck visibly out of the case halves. The bearings that were sent were Mahle aluminum ones, not the requested Silverlines, and the align bore was a very odd .050”. When measured with feeler blades each bearing stuck out around .005”. The gap was measured at .010” with a feeler blade as seen in the pictures. As well, the center bearings did not line up as they should, they were offset. The center main was not only warped, but also twisted. The bearings didn't fit and actually sheared off a little bit when installed into the case. We talked to our friends at the local machine shop, the fitment was totally screwed. Whether or not the case was like this before it was shuffle-pinned and re alignbored is questionable, but if it was like this previously then it should not have ever had any further machine work done to it. As well, the bearings should have been fit before the engine case was sent back to us. We did not know how to check for warpage before sending it, and assumed the machinist would do that as part of the inspection. We do take all responsibility for assuming Martin Willis could actually do his job, and we deeply regret it. We had to learn after we received the case back because the gap was so visible. After we double checked and triple checked everything, Leif called Martin and explained the situation. Martin said he would stand behind his machine work and we should send him another case to have the same work done that he just did. That would not include everything that had already been done to this case before it went to Martin. Of course at this point, we simply did not feel comfortable sending Martin another case to have more incorrect machine work done, leaving us with another worthless engine case.

We decided the rest of any communication should be in e-mail just in-case anything happened. As well, we have documented pictures of the center main. The pictures depict a .010” feeler blade easily slid between the properly torqued together case halves. The pictures also show light shining between the case halves, and the offset of the bearing halves. The gap was the same without the bearings installed. We have checked other cases we have and this area should be 100% flat with no offset, as well as have no visible or measurable gap.

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One side

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Other side

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Quote:
From: "Leif Ryman" <[email protected]>
To: martinwillis@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:27:32 PM
Subject: VW Case issues


Hello Martin,
I wanted to send you an email with some pictures so you can see what is going on with the VW case I had asked you to spec out, clean, and shuffle pin. As you can see there is a gap in the center web above and below the bearing saddle, it is possible to get a .010 feeler gauge easily into the gap. A couple of the pictures show light from my cell phone screen showing through the web. It also appears to be twisted when looking at it from the side one side of the case is not lined up with the other side of the case, creating a ledge and un-even bearing surface and not to mention that the bearings were extremely difficult to get into the saddle and then did not sit right.

I appreciate you saying you will stand by your work. But you must understand that this has caused a bit of a dilemma for me, when this was the final piece of the puzzle I was waiting on to complete my engine build, when I was expecting to receive a perfect case after putting $365 ($65 for shipping) into it and waiting the time to get it back from you. If the case was speced out in the beginning and you told me that it was warped I would have paid you for the time on doing just that. This has delayed me severely and I do not yet know what direction I am going from here.

You presented me with two options and I am not very comfortable with either of them. It is not possible to resurface a VW case and still have it work in the same way, it would have to be align bored again (already align bored quite to 50, so at least 60) and have the cam journal align bored, and then the lifter bores will also be closer to the cam at the end of the day. Plus on this case the center main is actually twisted so this would not fix it anyway.

I can get another case but I do not know when I can physically have it in my hands. The other issue is that it does not have near the amount of work into that the case I sent you already had, like being opened up for 94mm pistons, welded behind #3 and full flowed. The case is also standard/standard on the bearings so I would not like to have it align bored. Taking into consideration that this other case would cost me close to $200, plus the other work, shipping and the $365 that I already spent on the the work with you; you can see how this would add up to the cost of what I could get a new Mag case already opened up from one of my suppliers. Then there would be the additional time of waiting for the work to be done with you, which I would be very hesitant to do with the lack of attention to detail on this last project.

At this point I hope you can understand that I would like a refund as I try to figure out how I am going to move forward with this build. I would like to get a refund of the $300 for your work I will eat the cost of shipping and the original $300 value of the case. I know you would prefer not to do this since you already have your time in but my time is worth something also and a lot of that is gone along with the original value of the case which I am going to have to chalk up to a learning experience now that I better know how to speck out cases now. If you send me a refund we will just forget this ever happened and keep it between us. I will send this case back to you so you can have it and do what you will with it as it is unbuildable and junk to me.


Thank you for working with me on this and keeping the lines of communication open to address this issue.

Leif


Quote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <martinwillis@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: VW Case issues
To: Leif Ryman <[email protected]>

Hello Lief,
Thank you for the lenghthy email.

I quoted you on shuffle pinning your case . $140. The case arrived as dirty as I've ever seen. It took my cleaning person over 4 hours to get it right. I then could not fit my jig as as the case was aready oversize. We agreed on another $50 to get this done.

At no stage did I quote you on a thorough inspection of this case. I would only throroughly inspect a case at $75 an hour. As it ultimately turns out this case was not a suitable candidate for any further work being done on it. I could have charged you $80 cleaning and another $ 75 inspection. Togethger with the shipping both ways, and all you have is a clean unservicable case?

Your case is maybe 40 years old and has had hard life especialy with oversize bores. I did not sell you this case. You have to take some ownership here?

The center main was pounded out. I got this measurement on closing the caste to check the dowel fitment.

I took another 2 hours to over bore the case to 1.5mm. This I only charged out at $60. No money being made here.

Why did yoiu not bolt the case up and do your light shinning before sending it to me? You seem to be great at inspecting cases after the fact.
We are both out of pocket. I cannot pass you a full credit on the machine work or the bearing set.

I will however repair this case, (which you seem to choose not to) Or remachine another case at no charge.

As you seem dead set on getting a refund, I will credit you with $250 for the machine work. I will however be offsetting this with a cleaning and inspection charge which you say you were prepaired to pay for anyway, of $155. So a refund of $95 will be coming your way.



I am sorry this never worked out well for either of us.

Sincerely Martin.


Martin Willis
The Machine Shop
110 West Fountain Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO 80903
(719) 330-0085




Quote:
Hello Willis,

The original quote over the phone was for $40 for cleaning, and $140 for the shuffle pinning, I 100% agree. The issue is that in the letter that I sent you with the case I asked you to make sure it was build-able before doing any work on it. Any other machine shop that I have worked with or even heard of will tell you in a few minutes if the case is not build-able and to bring another one, and this is done because they do not want to spend their time on something that will not be perfect or waste the customers time or money on something that is not build-able.

I know that you did not buy the case and I take ownership for that, and have not asked you to be responsible for that in the least.

If you usually charge $75/hour for inspection that is fine that is what you do, but I know that it does not take an hour to know that this case is not build-able. I will also own up that I did not take a good look at the case before I sent it to you because I did not know what to look for, and it was dirty, but not the dirtiest case I have ever seen. When I got quoted for a case cleaning this usually just mean throwing it in a washer and then having someone knock off some of the bigger chunks. I am sorry you paid someone for 4 hours of hand cleaning. I am willing to pay for the $40 we talked about on cleaning the case but can not justifiably pay for the $75 inspection when this was never done. This was evident when I got the call that your jig was not fitting, it is stamped on top of the case that it was 40/40.

I will pay for your cleaning of $40 that I was expecting, anything after that is because of the error you made of not looking at the case closely. As soon as I got it back it was visually easy to tell within minutes that the center bearing saddle was not sitting correctly, something that should have been noticed even without inspection when fitting your jig, or if missed there when it was bolted together to align bore.

I take zero responsibility in sending you a junk case, I am no expert, you are supposed to be and that is what I was paying YOU for, and why I chose you initially. I did not know how to properly look at the case before it was sent to you, but something was up when I got it back and that was clear so I have had to gain some knowledge along the way.

I do not want to pay for the awful fitting bearings as it should never have gotten that far to begin with, to add they are sub par, and I left a message asking to make sure they were quality bearings. It is clear that they were never fitted after align boring either.

I am expecting a refund of $260 because this is the work that was done that no other machine shop would have done and then charge for on this case. I am still covering the shipping charges because I am a reasonable human being.

Also fixing this case is not an option it is warped and twisted and this is not repairable in the VW machine shop world. There is a process of baking it and cooling it that MAY straiten it out, but it is necessary to re-bore the center mains and the cam mains, and this is not acceptable to me.


Leif

Martin then sent an email that asked Leif to call him. Leif was quite upset at this point and felt that not much more could be said politely, so I decided to call Martin and discuss the situation as I'm the one that's going to build his motor. I left a message. Martin called me early the next morning and I discusssed the fact that we were not willing to pay for an inspection that was never done and I considered this a “ripoff”. The only service which could be paid for, or rather not refunded, would be the $40 engine cleaning and shipping. Martin told me that the “Volkswagen wanted to be a Porsche” and I almost lost it, he apparently forgot which one came first. I told him specifically that I could tell he didn't fit the bearings, and he admitted to that. I told Martin that I would be coming down to his shop to return the engine case and get a refund. I drove down on Friday December 14th, 2012 from Denver. When I arrived at Martin's shop he wanted to measure the case and check it out some more. He dumped some random hardware out of a coffee can and tightened the case halves together. He began to do the “light shinning” by shining the flashlight in from the front and looking in from the front; the incorrect way. I took the light from him and lit the center saddle from the rear while he looked from the front, there was an obvious issue. Then he split the case and tried to fit the bearings, which ofcourse wouldn't fit. Eventually, Martin kept coming up with all kinds of wild solutions such as surfacing the case halves which he believes would repair the twisted saddle. I interrupted him and stated that machine work was about perfection the fact that he didn't even fit the bearings proved his sub-par work and he was extremely rude and asked me if I had come to return the engine case or insult him. Obviously, I didn't drive all the way down at 55mph with no heat to just return the engine case. Martin said he would be issuing a full refund for the machine work.

Leif received the following email:


Quote:
Hello Ryman,
mailed you check # 689 for $260 today.

Sorry this did not work out for.

Sincerely Willis
Martin Willis
The Machine Shop
110 West Fountain Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO 80903
(719) 330-0085


A check for $260 showed up in the mail on December 17th, 2012 from Martin Willis and was cashed.

I had decided since that point not to say anything, if he didn't try to sell the case. Since he has decided to try to sell my engine case, I'm going to out this sucker. It's not his case and he doesn't deserve having it or selling it or anything.

His solution is to surface the case halves and that is seriously a joke. It also looks like he switched the shuffle-pins from the way he sent it back to us. The saddle is twisted and non-repairable.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1408956

As you can see, the pins sat on opposite sides of the engine case.

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His description proves his lack of knowledge.

Quote:
Shuffle pin center maiun
reface case halves to clean up shuffling on center main saddles
line bored to 1.5mm o/s and 1 mm on thrust.
bored pump , and cam bores back to standard.
checked all studs to hold torq. case savers as needed.
This case has already been bored and fresh spotfaced for (97mm spigot size) big cylindewrs.
It has been strengthed by welding in a plate on the flywheel side.


I have nothing to gain by posting this, other than protecting other enthusiasts from getting screwed by this unknowledgeable person and keeping my pride. Unfortunately for my friend, he's still out $100 and 5 weeks of time and still looking for an engine case. I would absolutely never deal with this person, and certainly would not recommend him for any type of machine work. The manner in which we were treated was unjustified and his work was totally sub par. I don't really care about anything Martin has to say; people can talk all day, but the proof is in the pudding.

Take this as a warning, and I hope nobody else in the community gets ripped off.
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: themachineshop - [email protected] - Martin Willis Reply with quote

Martin fixed a warped 356B drum I purchased from a Samba member that claimed it was "restored". I thought the drum was useless, but Martin made it look like new. Not only did he straighten the drum he, re-lined and cross-drilled the new liner to match the existing setup. They look fantastic. Because of the fine job, he is re-lining the rest of my set. Good turn-around and communication. Fair pricing for a skill that is hard to find. Thanks Martin!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: themachineshop - [email protected] - Martin Willis Reply with quote

I contacted The Machine Shop about some Porsche 356 A Front drums that I needed to have re-lined. These were off a race car and were just slightly out of spec, but the liners had been heat cracked. I spoke with Martin, who is extremely knowledgeable about these brakes! Sending off these parts to someone who "might" be able to fix them wasn't an option for me.
Martin was extremely professional on the phone, asking me questions about work needed that I hadn't even thought about. It's obvious that he's been around this type of work for a long time. I sent them off to the shop, and as soon as they received them, he sent me an email, confirming that they had received them...and would follow up with me the following day. Sure enough, he did. I was kept in the loop the entire time the drums were there, letting me know when the work would be completed, and when they were ready to ship. How often do machine shops do that now days?
I am completely satisfied with the work that was preformed at the shop. My bearing race area was out of spec, so they also repaired that area for me for a minimal charge. I wouldn't hesitate to send off my expensive parts to Martin Willis at The Machine Shop at all. He is very capable of repairing them, and quite responsible during the whole process. These are not just "parts" to him. Thank you Martin, and the crew at The Machine Shop!!

Scott

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