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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 58Dub wrote: |
Did you have Rocky tap the case for that? |
I bought the drill bit and tap to do it myself. If Rocky already has the drill and tap, it would probably be cheaper to pay him to do it, rather than do it yourself.
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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owdlvr
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2008
Posts: 684
Location: Squampton BC
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
| owdlvr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm using a CB Performance dry-sump tank. The 12-quart advertised capacity is greater than the physical dimensions of the tank. Seriously. |
That would be due to the fact that dry-sump tanks aren't classed by the tank capacity, but rather the oil capacity of the whole oil system. |
Not to be contentious, but Peterson, Canton, and Mocal tanks are advertised at the actual tank capacity. Using the 2/3rds rule of thumb, if you want to run 8 qts of oil you would plan to run a 12 qt Peterson, Canton, or Mocal tank.
Stef's tanks are advertised at less than their physical capacity, so that you add the advertised volume of oil and there is adequate volume remaining for de-aeration. So, if you want to run 8 qts of oil, you run an 8 qt Stef's tank.
None of these tanks are advertised at a capacity greater than their physical dimensions.
This CB tank is the only one I've come across that is advertised at 2 qts more than its physical dimensions.
The only purpose of bringing this up is that if anybody is comparing different tank sizes to fit the physical dimensions available, they should at least be aware of this discrepancy relative to what other US dry sump tank manufacturers are advertising. |
Ah, yes. Double checked and you are, I think, correct. Pretty sure Peterson is sized like the Steff with a lower capacity vs. dimensions...but supercritical is on an I don't feel like doing math 
-Dave
_________________
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Instagram: @DaveHord
1971 1302s - Salzburg Tribute the #RallyBug
1958 Beetle
1975 Beetle
1973 Super Beetle
1993 C3500 with Cummins swap
1967 MGB
1963 MG Midget |
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rrcade
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: WI 1962 Bug 2276
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there a plumbing schematic for that DAVE HORD picture with the accusump? Wondering why there is a line going towards the front of the car |
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owdlvr
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2008
Posts: 684
Location: Squampton BC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
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The line goes up to the base of the shifter, where I have a manual ball valve, before making a 180 turn to go back to the engine. Allows me to open and close the Accusump without unbelting from the 5pt harness.
-Dave
_________________
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Instagram: @DaveHord
1971 1302s - Salzburg Tribute the #RallyBug
1958 Beetle
1975 Beetle
1973 Super Beetle
1993 C3500 with Cummins swap
1967 MGB
1963 MG Midget |
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Ian Godfrey
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006
Posts: 1137
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:32 am Post subject: |
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stripped66..... this is very useful information which I did not know. I am buying a drysump tank soon and have been a bit confused by dimensions and capacity.
many thanks. |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Ian Godfrey wrote: |
stripped66..... this is very useful information which I did not know. I am buying a drysump tank soon and have been a bit confused by dimensions and capacity.
many thanks. |
When in doubt, estimate the tank volume from the given dimensions, accounting for the filler-neck (subtract its height from the overall calculation of volume) and any conical features of the tank. This will give you a ballpark figure whether the advertised volume is the tank capacity (e.g. Peterson), whether the advertised volume is how much oil should be in the tank (e.g. Stef's), or whether the advertised volume is something else entirely.
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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rrcade
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: WI 1962 Bug 2276
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think you could have too large of a tank, the size of the tank doesn't change how much oil goes through the engine, I suppose you could use a Quarter Barrel if you wanted, just drink the beer first then weld in your bungs. |
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owdlvr
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2008
Posts: 684
Location: Squampton BC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Few folks have asked me for a diagram of my system. Here it is, setup to be easy to read.
-Dave
_________________
---
Instagram: @DaveHord
1971 1302s - Salzburg Tribute the #RallyBug
1958 Beetle
1975 Beetle
1973 Super Beetle
1993 C3500 with Cummins swap
1967 MGB
1963 MG Midget |
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| owdlvr wrote: |
Few folks have asked me for a diagram of my system. Here it is, setup to be easy to read.
-Dave |
thanks Dave
_________________
58 Beetle (now just a pile of parts in the corner)
60 Beetle (2221 turbo under construction)
70 Beetle Baja project |
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fastone
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2010
Posts: 211
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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What are you guys useing for a bypass ?
Nice diagram, But don't see the bypass. |
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owdlvr
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2008
Posts: 684
Location: Squampton BC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm only using the in-case factory bypass to the sump. No bypass to feed line, as suggested with some systems. When I was researching dry-sump setups for the VW, there wasn't a whole lot of information available, and I don't recall reading a whole lot about bypasses. I did initially look into adding an external bypass (Peterson style) but later determined it wasn't necessary.
I based the bulk of my system on Mark & John Huebbe's setup, as it was well proven with two years of stage rally (and now a WRC Mexico class win). To my knowledge they've just been running the factory bypass as well, but I will ask Mark to jump in on the thread and confirm. Now that mine is together, I can safely say that both of our systems have sustained long periods (often 30min or more) at 5500-6500rpm without issue.
A bypass would be really nice to have during warmup, though I have been able to combat high-pressure at cold temperatures with a combination of oil weight and, pre-heating and careful warm up.
Please chime in regarding the need/benefit for a bypass. I'm always open to improving my system...and if I've missed something important I would certainly go back to improve things.
-Dave
_________________
---
Instagram: @DaveHord
1971 1302s - Salzburg Tribute the #RallyBug
1958 Beetle
1975 Beetle
1973 Super Beetle
1993 C3500 with Cummins swap
1967 MGB
1963 MG Midget |
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I've been searching for possible oil pickups for a drysump and ran across this. Has anyone seen one of these? Just wondering if its as restrictive as a normal banjo type fitting.
http://www.holley.com/230122ERL.asp
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58 Beetle (now just a pile of parts in the corner)
60 Beetle (2221 turbo under construction)
70 Beetle Baja project |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: |
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IMO, even if they were significantly more restrictive than a standard -12 fitting, running an external pressure bypass that returned the oil to the tank instead of the case would eliminate that issue. If you need the clearance, I'd think it would work fine; if you don't need the clearance, it's an expensive hose-end.
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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does this pump use the factory pickup as the scavenge? would make sense but the drawing isnt showing it
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| does this pump use the factory pickup as the scavenge? would make sense but the drawing isnt showing it |
The pump I am planning on using will have an external scavenge line.
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58 Beetle (now just a pile of parts in the corner)
60 Beetle (2221 turbo under construction)
70 Beetle Baja project |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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like a sump "plate" on the oil drain plate part of the case. Ive seen those before, some of the Dry sump setups are hard to wrap my head around
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| does this pump use the factory pickup as the scavenge? would make sense but the drawing isnt showing it |
the BP can use the stock one or external
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| Alstrup wrote: |
| I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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markhuebbe
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2006
Posts: 379
Location: St. Louis, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| owdlvr wrote: |
| I based the bulk of my system on Mark & John Huebbe's setup, as it was well proven with two years of stage rally (and now a WRC Mexico class win). To my knowledge they've just been running the factory bypass as well, but I will ask Mark to jump in on the thread and confirm. Now that mine is together, I can safely say that both of our systems have sustained long periods (often 30min or more) at 5500-6500rpm without issue. |
No bypass. Takes a while to heat up all of the oil, but it's a good thing while on stage. I normally like to start a stage with 160F oil and by the end of 20 miles I'm pushing 230F to 250F. At rally Mexico I ran for over an hour on just one stage between 4k-6krpm and never a problem.
I'd have to say my system (and Dave's) has proven itself. I've ran it since 2006 and never had a problem. The only time I've lost oil pressure is when I run low (normally due to burning oil) and toss the car around tight twisty courses (which uncovers the sump pickup tube).
_________________
1970 Beetle - Rally car
http://www.Rally-America.com
http://www.HuebbeRally.com |
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fastone
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2010
Posts: 211
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| owdlvr wrote: |
I'm only using the in-case factory bypass to the sump. No bypass to feed line, as suggested with some systems. When I was researching dry-sump setups for the VW, there wasn't a whole lot of information available, and I don't recall reading a whole lot about bypasses. I did initially look into adding an external bypass (Peterson style) but later determined it wasn't necessary.
I based the bulk of my system on Mark & John Huebbe's setup, as it was well proven with two years of stage rally (and now a WRC Mexico class win). To my knowledge they've just been running the factory bypass as well, but I will ask Mark to jump in on the thread and confirm. Now that mine is together, I can safely say that both of our systems have sustained long periods (often 30min or more) at 5500-6500rpm without issue.
A bypass would be really nice to have during warmup, though I have been able to combat high-pressure at cold temperatures with a combination of oil weight and, pre-heating and careful warm up.
Please chime in regarding the need/benefit for a bypass. I'm always open to improving my system...and if I've missed something important I would certainly go back to improve things.
-Dave |
Well it's a dry sump, Bypassing oil to the sump kinda defeats the hole purpose.
A external bypass to the tank is a much better option, Here a image of the 3 stage A/C Pump I sold
you can see the -8 brass bypass.
As far as pickups this is about the best you can get.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=490757
I have a few of those hard lines if somebody needs one.
I Sold that pump to guy on here, 1946vw he seem's to be doing pretty sweet work  |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. It's a simple, inexpensive, and effective pick-up. Unfortunately, they only work on Type 1's and will not fit a converted wasserboxer case.
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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