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Chassis measurements
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Lowdown Dirty Rat
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

here's a sticky for you.

All barndoor chassis measurements in one place.
please note these were all taken from 1952 Panelvans.
other years may vary.

Barndoor chassis measurements

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Note; S = 4.5cm (says 5cm approx)

curtisy of Mark 52panelvan

conduit runs (and more chassis measurements)

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created by 52deluxebug http://statusvw1952van.blogspot.com

and although not strictly barndoor. These chassis measurements are also extremely useful.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


hope it helps others as much as it helped me.
Saving Barndoors one weld at a time.
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busben
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

Couple more diagrams brought in from other threads ……..

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/610270.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/transporter_interiors_german/cover.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/transporter_interiors_german/back.jpg

I believe, from memory since I don't have a barndoor jig in front of me, that the lower front axle tube sits 20mm lower than the rear axle, measured center - center.
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

Before welding up my jig, I want to be clear to the location "A" in this picture. It says "a" is the rear of the front beam seats. So is this saying the flat vertical area basicly between the beam tubes? Almost center line of the tube itself? Or something else? In another pic with the same measurement it looks like line a is on the rear of the tube itself. Just wanting to really make sure this is correct. I don't want to be an inch off either direction.
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

Anyone? Hoping to be clear before starting the jig this weekend. If anyone can measure the distance between the back of the front lower beam tube to the front of the torsion housing tube that would be great.
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kalymnos Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

I measured 2071 mm
Diameter lower front beam: 58 mm
diameter torsion beam 90 mm
= distance A-B: 2145 mm
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

kalymnos wrote:
I measured 2071 mm
Diameter lower front beam: 58 mm
diameter torsion beam 90 mm
= distance A-B: 2145 mm

Great. Thanks so much!
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alexs
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

Where 'A' should be measured: https://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=82320
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

alexs wrote:
Where 'A' should be measured: https://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=82320

Looks like I wasn't the only one confused by the drawing and wording not matching. Thanks again.
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djfordmanjack
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

been hesitating to reply since I was hoping somebody would really come up with a 100% reliable measurement from a low milage survivor bus to help you out.
In my opinion that area of the barndoorchassis is the least documented and most difficult to recreate. even the 'good' quality replacement patch panels are not accurate enough imho. Judging from comparing several og bus cuts, patch panels, drawings aso.
older buses had no strengthener brackets inside the front chassis rails and thats why obviously many originals are cracked, bent or damaged from impact.

Another stupid thing is those dimensions in the drawing taken from the middleline of the front tophat...that is totally awkward since the tophat is 35mm wide and that is the cause of all these fractions of mm measurements (35:2 =17.5mm). also the front bulkhead ( 1mm thick) was welded in front of the tophat... there is a lot of room for misconceptions.

I have a theory, and that's what it is, a theory. Those engineers were designing a transporter back in 1949, and in typical German fashion, one would seperate the cargo area from the cab area. also when planning and engineering on the drawing board.
I believe they started with point zero at the backside of the bulkhead ( never mind the ribs and other odds). let's just round down the 17.5mm ( half of the tophat section width) to 17mm and add that to the 1573mm from the drawing, that is 1590mm, which is as straight a dimension some German DIN approved engineer would come up with.
Aslo I believe the dimension of 2148.5 to 2149.5 does not make much sense.
I am sure it was a base dimension of 2149mm +-0.5mm tolerance. It probably should have been 2150mm, but at some point somebody got aware they added the 1mm thick bulkhead and from there stupid dimensions started.

I believe it's all very close though and maybe we are just talking millimeters here.

My conclusion is, that even though these are the factory dimensions, which are also given in the 1953 repair manual (which I have), I believe we are at least 2mm off in thinking. To the best of my knowledge and studying several og VW frames, I believe that the total chassis check measurement should be taken to the rear end of the frt chassis rail side plates. without the 2mm thick band steel that is then welded on behind it. that would also put the front axle 2mm further back. There is only one further picture in the shop manual and it clearly shows the middle of the frt axle torque tubes moved a bit back from the infamous point (A) we all want to use here....


Probably none of what I said does make sense to anybody here, but at least I tried... Rolling Eyes Laughing

I might think all of this here has cost me months of precious sleep over the years. Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



BTW, my theory also coincedes with Haralds measurement on bus, which gives 2145mm middle of front axle tube to middle of rear torsion tube. which is far less than the 2149mm measurement from the drawing.
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Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado
'51 Brezel project, Azurblau L36
'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

djfordmanjack wrote:
been hesitating to reply since I was hoping somebody would really come up with a 100% reliable measurement from a low milage survivor bus to help you out.
In my opinion that area of the barndoorchassis is the least documented and most difficult to recreate. even the 'good' quality replacement patch panels are not accurate enough imho. Judging from comparing several og bus cuts, patch panels, drawings aso.
older buses had no strengthener brackets inside the front chassis rails and thats why obviously many originals are cracked, bent or damaged from impact.

Another stupid thing is those dimensions in the drawing taken from the middleline of the front tophat...that is totally awkward since the tophat is 35mm wide and that is the cause of all these fractions of mm measurements (35:2 =17.5mm). also the front bulkhead ( 1mm thick) was welded in front of the tophat... there is a lot of room for misconceptions.

I have a theory, and that's what it is, a theory. Those engineers were designing a transporter back in 1949, and in typical German fashion, one would seperate the cargo area from the cab area. also when planning and engineering on the drawing board.
I believe they started with point zero at the backside of the bulkhead ( never mind the ribs and other odds). let's just round down the 17.5mm ( half of the tophat section width) to 17mm and add that to the 1573mm from the drawing, that is 1590mm, which is as straight a dimension some German DIN approved engineer would come up with.
Aslo I believe the dimension of 2148.5 to 2149.5 does not make much sense.
I am sure it was a base dimension of 2149mm +-0.5mm tolerance. It probably should have been 2150mm, but at some point somebody got aware they added the 1mm thick bulkhead and from there stupid dimensions started.

I believe it's all very close though and maybe we are just talking millimeters here.

My conclusion is, that even though these are the factory dimensions, which are also given in the 1953 repair manual (which I have), I believe we are at least 2mm off in thinking. To the best of my knowledge and studying several og VW frames, I believe that the total chassis check measurement should be taken to the rear end of the frt chassis rail side plates. without the 2mm thick band steel that is then welded on behind it. that would also put the front axle 2mm further back. There is only one further picture in the shop manual and it clearly shows the middle of the frt axle torque tubes moved a bit back from the infamous point (A) we all want to use here....


Probably none of what I said does make sense to anybody here, but at least I tried... Rolling Eyes Laughing

I might think all of this here has cost me months of precious sleep over the years. Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



BTW, my theory also coincedes with Haralds measurement on bus, which gives 2145mm middle of front axle tube to middle of rear torsion tube. which is far less than the 2149mm measurement from the drawing.

This makes total since to me. I've been racking my brain for a while trying to figure out these dimensions and why they couldn't put a true measurement from center to center on the torsion tubes front and rear. Still working on my jig. But this has certainly helped tremendously. Thanks so much!
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djfordmanjack
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

Please make your own conclusions from my theory. I really didn't want to step up and propose the new golden rule in Barndoor chassis research, which it isn't. Wink
I am positive that others will have found similar ideas, and might be uncertain to share, because little is known and available about it.
Also there is only one style of repair panels for the front chassis rails, although there are many smaller and even huge differences between the early 50/51 and later.
so obviously the repair panels on the market are trying to cover most important features of all types. I am not only talking about the ribs in the treasure chest sides (inner frame plates). A lot is tied together in that place and I am sure VW also made changes and moved things around a few mm now and then.

Good luck with your efforts and keep us posted please, better even start a build thread ! Very Happy
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Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado
'51 Brezel project, Azurblau L36
'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'56 Oval, Polarsilber L324 og paint og chrome og everything
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kalymnos Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Chassis measurements Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
Anyone? Hoping to be clear before starting the jig this weekend. If anyone can measure the distance between the back of the front lower beam tube to the front of the torsion housing tube that would be great.

I just made a new measurement, using another, what I think better method and its 2068 mm
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