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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 936
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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Wayne S. Johnson
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="rusty57"]Here is what i understand. This is the same situation i have with my wife's car. It is a 66. Originally 6 volt. At some point, a half assed 12 volt conversion was performed, much like the ones i've too done in the past. Change the battery, all bulbs, and maybe the generator/or to 12V alternator. Kits are relatively cheap, and pretty straight forward. I always put off the starter, and flywheel, because they are a pain, and leaving the 6 Volt crap in there, works just fine...for a while. The starter is now spinning up a lot faster with the 12 V battery. This causes the teeth on the 6 V flywheel to wear and even chip off. Look at this example of my current 6 volt flywheel. you may be able to see the damage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107515
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Ace
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Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| when you destroy the teeth on the flywheel running that 6 volt starter at 12 volts, you can always get a 12 volt ring gear installed on it. |
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Wayne S. Johnson
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
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Ace
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| They machine off the teeth and put on a new ring gear. Mine ran $165 including resurfacing and shipping both ways to rimco when I had mine done a few years back. |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ace wrote: |
| They machine off the teeth and put on a new ring gear. Mine ran $165 including resurfacing and shipping both ways to rimco when I had mine done a few years back. |
CIP1 has new 12 volt flywheels for around $70.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D311%2D105%2D271
The issue with putting a 12 volt flywheel on a 40 horse has to do with which 40 horse? The early 40 horse engines did not have an O-Ring flywheel. And on those engines the crankshaft was square cut at the flywheel mating surface.
Latter they went to an O-Ring flywheel and the end of the crank got a small champher for the O-Ring.
So as long as you have the latter O-Ring style 40 horse, you should be able to install a 12 volt flywheel and get on down the road.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Install a 12 volt starter solenoid on the 6 volt starter, so the starter gear will not pound the FW teeth to death....
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Install a 12 volt starter solenoid on the 6 volt starter, so the starter gear will not pound the FW teeth to death.... |
Some of you are missing his point! He has a 12 volt 67 that he wants to run a 40 horse in.
It would be SILLY to convert the car to 6 volts when he can EASILY convert the engine to 12!
But Eric&Barb does have a good point. Leave the 6 volt flywheel and simply replace the starter with a 6 volt starter and the SPECIAL adapter bushing.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5766
As for replacing the solenoid, thats not really necessary. Many of us had very good success running 6 volt starters on 12 volts for years. With NO damage to flywheel or starter.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: |
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For some reason.. I remember using a 12 volt flywheel on an old 40 horse.. (non Oring) and didnt have any issues.. ??
Seems like I just didnt use the O ring.. maybe added the gasket/shim instead ??
I also remember an issue once where the crank Gland Nut bottomed out in the crank before the flywheel was tight. The gland nut had a shoulder on it.. Seems like I grabbed an older gland nut and tried to use in on a later crank..
Too long ago... cant remember all of them..
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guilaurent
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Joined: September 08, 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Quebec,Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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I refreshed a 40hp because I had a worn out 1600 12V engine on my 66.
I took off the 1600 put the 12v flywheel on the 40 hp 1200 and a 12v coil.
I adjusted the endplay an ran it for a year during the rebuild of the 1600.
It was a oring version flywheel on the 6 v 1200. |
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vwsonmybrain
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Joined: March 21, 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a depth/clearance issue between the earlier crank and the 12v flywheel. I have a retired VW mechanic friend that machined my later 12v flywheel to fit the earlier, non-o ring 40hp flywheel. |
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vwsteve
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Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1047
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| MOST 12 volt flywheels use an o-ring and MOST 40 hp cranks do not. The flywheel will not bolt on without removing the ledge on the flywheel. I have done this with just a drill press and grinding stone. There is not much to take off. Once you do this, you can no longer use an o-ring in the flywheel even if you put it back on an o-ring style crank. You just need to use the earlier style gasket between flywheel and crank. The machining is not critical because the dowels are what positions the flyweel to the crank. I have been running my drill press modified flywheel on a 40 hp for years. |
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Wayne S. Johnson
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I sold many Hybrid 6/12 starters to people who just replaced the 6 V solenoid with a 12 V solenoid and said they still had grinding and engagement problems.
The 12 volt flywheel form CIP1 is around $70 plus the shipping to CA is $30. Don’t forget the rest of the parts Shims $10, Seal $3 and a 6/12 bushing $3 Pressure Plate 200mm Clutch Disc 200mm, Release Bearing kit $90 plus $30 shipping. 12 V starter $95 shipped. Total $333 and many hours to install all the parts. If you forget something you will be spending more time to get it right.
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Joined: September 07, 2011
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
I sold many Hybrid 6/12 starters to people who just replaced the 6 V solenoid with a 12 V solenoid and said they still had grinding and engagement problems.
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If they had already damaged the FW ring gear with 6/6 volt starter, it is not going to self heal. 
The only way to "heal" the problem is either have the gear teeth lathed down as covered in the shop manuals, or use a hand file to knock off the mushroomed front of the gear teeth.
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