| Author |
Message |
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| The putty knife was the best/least intrusive choice I imagine. You better inspect the 2 engine faces carefully to spot any possible leaks that you could true up if necessary. |
Will do. Thanks.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've removed the clutch assembly and split the case . I had a few case savers come out while removing the studs. I sprayed the pieces down with some drgreaser as they'll be getting pressure washed tomorrow (I hope). I'll be sending the case off to get machined. I don't know all the parts names so Please forgive my lack of nomenclature, There are some small pieces that are around the crankk and cam. I'm wanting to remove these as well as these small pins so when I wash the case I don't loose these.
For my first time cracking a case, I learned a great deal on it. I thought I had removed all the bolds and washers but that wasn't the case.
Need to removed the remaining from the crank then begine to clean some of these pieces and set them aside until the case comes back so I can attempt the rebuild. Should be fun to put this together and my son is eager to turn the rachet.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Do yourself a favor and take the whole lot to a machine shop and have the parts washed in a professional washer.
Working with clean parts makes the whole thing more fun.
Can't really even get good measurements with dirty parts.
Trying to get hings clean with oven cleaner, or degreaser and pressure washer is futile.
Do all of these things before you take it in for pro cleaning,
And they will like you, and treat you better.
Many real engine shops get offended if you bring in stuff that hasn't been at least pressure-washed, and has actual dirt caked on it.
A good place to start is with a screwdriver, and maybe a stick and spoon.
It helps, if you are like me, if you have a neighbor that sucks.
I always wait until he is gone, and scrape off dirty parts in his yard.
That way he is more likely to track the stuff into his house...
_________________
Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Clatter wrote: |
Do yourself a favor and take the whole lot to a machine shop and have the parts washed in a professional washer.
Working with clean parts makes the whole thing more fun.
Can't really even get good measurements with dirty parts.
Trying to get hings clean with oven cleaner, or degreaser and pressure washer is futile.
Do all of these things before you take it in for pro cleaning,
And they will like you, and treat you better.
Many real engine shops get offended if you bring in stuff that hasn't been at least pressure-washed, and has actual dirt caked on it.
A good place to start is with a screwdriver, and maybe a stick and spoon.
It helps, if you are like me, if you have a neighbor that sucks.
I always wait until he is gone, and scrape off dirty parts in his yard.
That way he is more likely to track the stuff into his house... |
I'm mainly washing the parts of enough dirt and grime to get them shipped out. I have a friend who has a steam washer for parts and he's going to finish them off.
I used a putty knife to work the crack but following it up with a case splitter. Being it was my first time, I didn;t want to cause any damage as a result of my inexperience. I felt it was less invasive although I saw markings from a PO that looked like he was a bit more impatient.
My neighbors are pretty cool. One held drag bike world records, the other has a cool job with sports stuff for a store. Sorry your neightbors suck. I guess you've already extended the olive branch in one hand and he didn't accept and now you're waiving the other with your engine debris?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| montehm wrote: |
I've removed the clutch assembly and split the case . I had a few case savers come out while removing the studs. I don't know all the parts names so Please forgive my lack of nomenclature, There are some small pieces that are around the crankk and cam. I'm wanting to remove these as well as these small pins so when I wash the case I don't loose these.
For my first time cracking a case, I learned a great deal on it. I thought I had removed all the bolds and washers but that wasn't the case. |
Are you sure that a couple of case savers pulled? Or were those threads from the case that came out with the studs? Definitely send the case out for machining (align bore, and case savers).
Those small pieces around the crank and cam, are bearings. If you slip them off, you can see the wear patterns on them. That tells a story of how often the oil was changed, along with how hard the engie was used.
Yes, pull the small dowel pins, and put them somewhere you won't loose, or forget where you put them.
I warned you about the hidden nuts and bolts. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Yes, pull the small dowel pins, and put them somewhere you won't loose, or forget where you put them. |
Some report dowel pins of different lengths in their engines. Take a photo, number the locations in the photo, and baggie the dowels with a number in the baggie, just in case.
There was a post about someone with a too-long dowel pin having his engine lock up as he torqued the case together.
Better safe than sorry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| montehm wrote: |
I've removed the clutch assembly and split the case . I had a few case savers come out while removing the studs. I don't know all the parts names so Please forgive my lack of nomenclature, There are some small pieces that are around the crankk and cam. I'm wanting to remove these as well as these small pins so when I wash the case I don't loose these.
For my first time cracking a case, I learned a great deal on it. I thought I had removed all the bolds and washers but that wasn't the case. |
Are you sure that a couple of case savers pulled? Or were those threads from the case that came out with the studs? Definitely send the case out for machining (align bore, and case savers).
Those small pieces around the crank and cam, are bearings. If you slip them off, you can see the wear patterns on them. That tells a story of how often the oil was changed, along with how hard the engie was used.
Yes, pull the small dowel pins, and put them somewhere you won't loose, or forget where you put them.
I warned you about the hidden nuts and bolts. |
I believe these are case savers but am not 100% sure. Please correct me if I'm worng. These three were the only ones that backed themselves out when I was removing studs.
Location from where they backed out
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Yes, pull the small dowel pins, and put them somewhere you won't loose, or forget where you put them. |
Some report dowel pins of different lengths in their engines. Take a photo, number the locations in the photo, and baggie the dowels with a number in the baggie, just in case.
There was a post about someone with a too-long dowel pin having his engine lock up as he torqued the case together.
Better safe than sorry. |
I'll be sure to record them as they sit. Thanks for the info as I can see how those pieces could be cause of some pain.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, those do look like case savers, but it also looks like someone used the smaller version of them (looking at the case pic). But, I'd see IF you can remove them from the studs, as it might also be case material on the studs. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Yes, those do look like case savers, but it also looks like someone used the smaller version of them (looking at the case pic). But, I'd see IF you can remove them from the studs, as it might also be case material on the studs. |
Do you suggest screwing them back in and trying to tighten them down until the stud breaks free? Not sure of another option without damaging the threads. Your thoughts?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| montehm wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Yes, those do look like case savers, but it also looks like someone used the smaller version of them (looking at the case pic). But, I'd see IF you can remove them from the studs, as it might also be case material on the studs. |
Do you suggest screwing them back in and trying to tighten them down until the stud breaks free? Not sure of another option without damaging the threads. Your thoughts? |
No, put a vice grip on 1 of them, and see IF you can unthread the stud from it. Since it already came out with the stud, it needs to be replaced with the next size larger case saver anyway. They are not supposed to come out with the stud.
By doing this, you can determine whether it's actually a case saver, or just threads from the case that came out with the stud (and no case savers). Just so you know, all of the head studs need to be removed for any case machining.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| montehm wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Yes, those do look like case savers, but it also looks like someone used the smaller version of them (looking at the case pic). But, I'd see IF you can remove them from the studs, as it might also be case material on the studs. |
Do you suggest screwing them back in and trying to tighten them down until the stud breaks free? Not sure of another option without damaging the threads. Your thoughts? |
No, put a vice grip on 1 of them, and see IF you can unthread the stud from it. Since it already came out with the stud, it needs to be replaced with the next size larger case saver anyway. They are not supposed to come out with the stud.
By doing this, you can determine whether it's actually a case saver, or just threads from the case that came out with the stud (and no case savers). Just so you know, all of the head studs need to be removed for any case machining. |
I removed all the head studs and will take a vice grip to those studs to remove the threads. Would all the case savers need to be removed to be on the safe side? There's thread in the case where these savers came out of so I was wondering what's used to keep them in place? loctite or are they screwed in there dry and tightened up?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4919
Location: Southern AB
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwfanatic67
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 427
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
monte dont worry about all that case saver business Ill take care of it when you send it to me to be machined. Just get rods off and the flywheel off and send me the crank rods and case and I got it from there. Thanks man good job looks like you will be taking my job before long.
_________________
"white trash but worth every cent"
SBS #74
52 Split Beetle
60 Panel
65 Notchback
More if my wife would let me! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vwfanatic67 wrote: |
| monte dont worry about all that case saver business Ill take care of it when you send it to me to be machined. Just get rods off and the flywheel off and send me the crank rods and case and I got it from there. Thanks man good job looks like you will be taking my job before long. |
Ok, Gonna pressure wash this thing so I can pack it up. Trying to figure out how to remove the flywheel. Shoudl I have loosened that up before I removed it? Like while I was removing the fan?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwfanatic67
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 427
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
36mm and a impact will take it off
_________________
"white trash but worth every cent"
SBS #74
52 Split Beetle
60 Panel
65 Notchback
More if my wife would let me! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Today I removed the Crank rods and believe I found the cause of this motor seizing up. It was interesting to pull this thing apart as I wasn't expecting to see a crank rod bearing (I think it's what it's called) chewed up. It was a pain to get off but I kept at it until it gave in and allowed me to get a handle on it and pull it off. I didn't see any damage to the crank area but after it get's cleaned up, I'll know more. Also, the crank rod that was on had a flattened area on the side that was wierd. I compared it to the others and it it looks as if it was begining to wear down. Here's the pics... This rod looked different after comparing it to the others. The first, on the left also looks a little different
Compared to the one on the left, the rod on the right looks to have a wear spot that caused a bur/flatsport
There's bearing in there. I thought it was burnt oil which there is some but the bearing was burned to the crank
and as you can see, these are chewed up on the ends
I need to get a 36mm to ge the fly wheel off. I'm having too much fun and I finished a 12hr night shift and need to get to sleep. I have to get up in 5hrs to do it again!  
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I finally got the flywheel off the crank. I didn't have anyhting that could handle the amount of torque on that thing so I took it with me on my trip to get that 63 and few more parts. The owner of the place broke that bolt free for me. He mentioned he rebuilt a few motors before but never saw a concave washer that was next on the bolt washer (third from the right). I shrugged my shoulders and put my hands up and told him, "It's my first time so I expect some unexpected things happening after seeing those burn, chewed up pieces I had to remove. But it's fun!" Now I can clean it up along with the case and pack it up to ship. 
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Case Was sent off to vwfanatic67 to get machined and is done but my crank will be replaced. Looking forward to getting it back so I can start the re-assembly. I took the stock heads apart and had them tanked and re-seated. Should be getting the heads back by the end of the week.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Check your rods-- you may have a bent rod that torques on fine but when coupled at the other end with the wrist pin doesn't move straight, wobbling and chewing on the bearing. Either that or a bearing was mis-sized or mis-installed. The shop should have a VW jig to check (and even straighten) the rods. Any doubt, replace them.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
