Need help diagnosing noisy Westy ... Transaxle? Bearing?

[billaz]

Okay … here's my question. I've searched high and low on the Forum and the closest I've come to a similar issue was on a few Syncro owners posts. However, their problems & resolutions didn't solve the problem for me. I'd appreciate any input anyone has, as I'm a little flummoxed and I'm still a ways away from home on vacation. I'm not stranded yet, but I'd hate to try to nurse it home and wind up shiny side down due to a seized pinion or what have you.

First, some details on my Westy:

1985 2WD Westfalia with 205,000 mi, Subaru EJ22 conversion (crate engine with, presumably, original transaxle), big BF Goodrich Traction T/As (doubt that matters), and that's about all I can think of that may be relevant. I inherited this conversion and while not exactly what I would have done, it's relatively solid.

Also, I completed a 2,500 mile trip the last time I headed out … it's been awhile, but everything checked out before the trip.

On Spring Break with my family this week … drove off up into the mountains, Westy is running well, etc., with an elevation gain of about 3,700 feet in 60 miles.

Toward the end of this first climb, I started hearing a weird "thumping" noise in what sounded like the vicinity of the rear of the front passenger wheel. Fortunately, the passengers in the rear said they heard it "beneath the seat" or toward the rear of the Westy.

I checked everything: tires, hub, brake assy., half-shafts, etc., etc. May be the transaxle ... noise began after long, hard climb, heavy torque, etc. This noise is progressive, starting as barely audible but "sudden" and has become as loud as it is now within 30-45 mi.

After spending much of last night on the side of the road on my back, I gave up, returned to the nearest city and checked into a hotel. This morning, I took it to a local shop where the old-timer took the wheel off, checked the brake assy., the play in the bearings, etc., and found nothing amiss. After a "test ride" he said likely it may be a transaxle issue.

I recorded some audio and posted it to YouTube and Vimeo so I wouldn't have to describe it too much:

http://youtu.be/9brjJSfRyY0

https://vimeo.com/61867047

So the noise is loudest during acceleration; it is rhythmic and seems to be synchronized with the rotation of the rear wheels; the noise gets LOUDER upon acceleration and goes away almost completely when there is little or no load on the engine; it also disappears when the clutch is depressed … and lastly (and I just discovered this) the noise seems to be COMPLETELY ABSENT when driving in reverse.

So … help … don't know if I should have it flat-bedded or cross my fingers and nurse it down the hill. I've already arranged for my passengers and camping gear to be ferried by another car, but I want to keep the faith and drive this home (and more importantly, have some insight into what it may be, if I have to pull the transaxle, etc.)

Regards,

Bill

[Timwhy]

Just a guess, but did you also check the shocks? I read some post that described a noise and it ended
up being a loose shock.

If you can you could try tightening your castle nut on that hub. Mine has been ever so loose and it
too made a weird rubbing/growling sound once I started to drive faster. I carry a 46mm socket and
a breaking bar plus a three foot pipe to torgue that nut at the first sound of anything coming from the
rear hubs.

Hope it isn't serious so you can enjoy your vacation.
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[purplegodzilla]

If the noise dissapears when the clutch is depressed. I would take a wild guess either the clutch shattered (rivets gave out) or the throw out bearing is busted.
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1971 Westfalia (SOLD)
1991 Westfalia (SOLD)
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1985 Westfalia

[Vanbones]

I am by no means an expert, having only owned my 85 Westy for a month. But on my return trip from LA to Seattle my *new* van started making a noise very similar to that anytime it was under load. I spent four hours under her in Ashland replacing the drivers side half shaft and that fixed it. Mine had a slight bit more 'knock' to the noise, and it was coming from the drivers side, which as I understand it is the power side.

The part was $112, and it only required an Allen driver on the inside and a Torx (I think) on the wheel side.

[MarkWard]

Yuch, no wonder you stopped. Did the shop change the transmission fluid? If it were failing internally, I'd expect some material in the old fluid. If it were me, I'd pull both CV axles, stuff some grease in the open ends and reinstall them reversed. This will move the working load on the CV's to the opposite side. This might change the sound and indicate the problem is in one of the 4 cv joints.

When was the last time the CV's were cleaned, repacked and inspected? It probably needs to be done every 60K miles. You are on the road so you won't have the tools to do this properly. An honest shop should charge at most 4 hours to pull both axles, disassemble the joints, look for wear, repack and replace. 2 hours is really more honest, but you are on the road.

Not a big fan of replacement cv axles. If I have good original axles, I'd rather keep mine and replace the ends. Bummer, Good luck.
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[Central Syncronizer]

If you are lucky this will just be a CV joint thats dried out and heating up under torque.

It won't be a throw out bearing (those usually make noise when the clutch pedal is depressed if they are bad)

[billaz]

Currently sitting poolside, watching my boys attempt crack their skulls open on the shallow bottom ... waiting for a family member to make it here to serve as transport for camping gear / children / etc.

- The castle nuts are tight, cotter-pinned and I suspect it would take a hand grenade to loosen them;

- Both shocks are attached, happy, presumably "shocking" away ... the only weird anomaly re: the suspension are those crazy spacers people used to use to boost and stiffen up springs ... but they've been on since day one and are intact, have not caused problems, etc.;

- Both half-shafts are intact, all bolts torqued down ... there is no play or wiggle in them, in or out, fore or aft ... and the wheel bearings are tight;

The missing link in this whole mystery I would think should be the fact that it does not make that horrendous noise when driving in REVERSE. I discovered this somewhat by accident parking the Westy in the hotel last night ... backing up I noticed the noise was gone ... so I found a lengthy spot in the parking lot and tried backing up as far as I could and was somewhat astonished not to hear the noise (which emanates even at low speeds).

As of now, the thing that makes sense is the imploded clutch ... but there is no slipping and technically, it should make the same noise whether moving forward or in reverse.

I'm going to be pointing the business-end of this creampuff toward home in about 2 hours, crossing my fingers and hoping to make it to my garage so I can do some proper troubleshooting. I really, really don't want to have it trailered as I have a somewhat impeccable automotive record in not being stranded by the side of the road.

(With the one exception of the time when I bought an `84 Westfalia "project" and in the 90 mile drive home I managed to grenade the motor because I took the RPMs a bit too high driving down a hill ... I was planning on replacing the motor anyway ;^) But that doesn't count because technically I hadn't transferred the title yet!)

[MarkWard]

Rotate the CV axles as I suggested above. Get them spinning in the opposite direction. You are doing this by backing up. You are reversing the load on the CV joints. By flipping them, you transfer the load to the opposite side of the ball ramp. It is not a fix, but a temporary fix until you can have the axles disassembled.

The clutch does the same thing in forward and reverse. The other possibility is the ring and pinion in the differential. It is common to all the forward gears, but when backing, you are on the opposite side of the gears. If the ring and pinion was failing, there should be a lot of metal dust in the oil. Same would be true for a failing bearing.

I helped more than one tourist when I worked at the dealer here in Florida years ago, but just flipping the CV axle and adding some grease. Most people on vacation don't have a lot of extra money to spend on their vehicles.
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[levi]

I'm putting my money on cv joints.
Although the clunk isn't quite as sharp and loud as I have experienced with bad cv's, and having it happen towards the top of a hill fits there too.
If it's just a lack of grease, flipping like rsxsr says, and adding grease will buy you the miles.
I also had a set that were so badly worn that after flipping the axles I still got the knocking.

There is an exact procedure for the swap of axles btw, and I may have got them mixed up when I did it one time w/out positive effect.
Pretty easy to find it, and I'll post it when I do....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=311906&highlight=switching+axle
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