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Identify a replacement rear wheel cylinder
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BigPile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Identify a replacement rear wheel cylinder Reply with quote

After swapping my transmission out, I am now in the process of fixing up the rear brakes that had leaking wheel cylinders. I have been unsuccessful in finding the proper replacement and was wondering if anyone had any information that would help.

Here is the feed on the transmission swap: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...p;start=20

These are pictures of the wheel cylinder I am trying to replace:
Marked with (V-1083 IND BRAS)


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Here is a picture of the shoe off the rear brakes:

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Picture of the adjustment screw:

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Thanks for any information!
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your wheel cylinder and your adjuster don't match. The older cars used wheel cylinders with narrow shoe slots and adjusters with narrow slots. The later cars used wheel cylinders with wide slots and brake adjusters with wide slots and an angled bottom to the slot. On the narrow slot years the backing plate had one rub point for the shoe, just outside of the hold down spring in the center of the shoe. The wide slot cars added pad contact points near the wheel cylinder and brake adjuster (the position of the ends of the brake shoes where no longer set by the wheel cylinder and adjuster.) The change happened in 1965. It is why '65-'67 Bugs have different rear wheel cylinders and shoes compared to newer or older years. I've seen plenty of Bugs with horribly mixed up parts, but I insist on matched up brake parts.

To figure out what you should have:
1958-1964 rear backing plates.
1965-1967 rear backing plates.
We don't seem to have a good picture of 1968-1979 rear backing plates. These rear brakes are wider, so it should be easy to figure out.

1958-1964 --
1. 30mm wide rear brake shoes
2. The backing plate should only have 2 shoe resting pads

1965-1967 --
1. 30mm wide rear brake shoes
2. The backing plate should have 6 shoe resting pads

1968-1979 --
1. 40mm wide rear brake shoes
2. The backing plate should have 6 shoe resting pads
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BigPile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info! Doesn't surprise me that this has some mixed up parts. Here are some of the pictures of the backing plate I am working with, I am going to go through your links and see if I can find a match:

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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect you have 1968-1979 backing plates but the real test is the shoe width. Are they 30mm wide or 40mm wide (just under 1.25 inches wide or just over 1.5 inches wide)? If they are wider then you have a common late model system. Narrower should be the 1965-1967 brake system.

I see you have the early bearing cap on a later backing plate. Notice the little hole below the cap. That is for dumping any leaking gear oil overboard with a very different cap. I don't think this is any issue, so long as gear oil doesn't leak all over your brakes. The early system had a drum mounted oil slinger that has not been available new for years so there are lots of Bugs (including my buggy) running around that way.
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As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy.
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BigPile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
I suspect you have 1968-1979 backing plates but the real test is the shoe width. Are they 30mm wide or 40mm wide (just under 1.25 inches wide or just over 1.5 inches wide)? If they are wider then you have a common late model system. Narrower should be the 1965-1967 brake system.

I see you have the early bearing cap on a later backing plate. Notice the little hole below the cap. That is for dumping any leaking gear oil overboard with a very different cap. I don't think this is any issue, so long as gear oil doesn't leak all over your brakes. The early system had a drum mounted oil slinger that has not been available new for years so there are lots of Bugs (including my buggy) running around that way.


Ok, just measured them and they are the 40mm ones. So based on that is there a way to find out what wheel cylinders I need to replace my leaking ones?
Thank you so much for your help! I love this forum. Smile
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BigPile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
I suspect you have 1968-1979 backing plates but the real test is the shoe width. Are they 30mm wide or 40mm wide (just under 1.25 inches wide or just over 1.5 inches wide)? If they are wider then you have a common late model system. Narrower should be the 1965-1967 brake system.

I see you have the early bearing cap on a later backing plate. Notice the little hole below the cap. That is for dumping any leaking gear oil overboard with a very different cap. I don't think this is any issue, so long as gear oil doesn't leak all over your brakes. The early system had a drum mounted oil slinger that has not been available new for years so there are lots of Bugs (including my buggy) running around that way.


Ok, just measured them and they are the 40mm ones. So based on that is there a way to find out what wheel cylinders I need to replace my leaking ones?
Thank you so much for your help! I love this forum. Smile
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regular parts for a 1968 or newer Beetle are what you want. I buy Varga (Brazil) brake parts when available. I try to avoid really cheap parts that come from places unknown.
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donbarnes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This company has good German ATE ones, and shipping on any order over $50 is free:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Volkswagen/B...l?loc=Rear


But I also use the TRW/Varga Brazilian stuff with good luck, although I had a problem on Ebay a few months ago of a seller that showed a pic of TRW/Varga cylinders, but sent me Empi ones- I could smell the cheap Chinese rubber before I ever even opened the box Mad
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BigPile
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

donbarnes wrote:
This company has good German ATE ones, and shipping on any order over $50 is free:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Volkswagen/B...l?loc=Rear


But I also use the TRW/Varga Brazilian stuff with good luck, although I had a problem on Ebay a few months ago of a seller that showed a pic of TRW/Varga cylinders, but sent me Empi ones- I could smell the cheap Chinese rubber before I ever even opened the box Mad


Ok, thanks! What does the "Fit note:Wheel 17.5mm Diameter" refer to?
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donbarnes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It refers to the inner diameter of the wheel cylinder, that should be the stock size for the rear... Some people run the bigger Super Beetle front wheel cylinders on the rear, I think they are a direct bolt on. I'm running Type 3 brakes on the rear of my rail and baja both now, so I've forgotten a little about what all the different Bug cylinders fit...
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dazn9796
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran into the same problem a month ago. Going from a 68 to 64 trans. the new baking plates where the 30 mm and luckily I took the old shoes and wheel cylinders with me to match up. When they got the new wheel cylinders in they where the 40 mm instead of the 30mm. We started at 67 and went back until the part number changed and came up with the 64 wheel cylinder to fit the 30mm shoes. PITA!!! Instead of going thru all the hassle of changing and trying to track down parts you should have taken the axles tubes and brakes form the old tranny swapped them over sealed everything up nice and neat and you would be done.
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BigPile
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dazn9796 wrote:
I ran into the same problem a month ago. Going from a 68 to 64 trans. the new baking plates where the 30 mm and luckily I took the old shoes and wheel cylinders with me to match up. When they got the new wheel cylinders in they where the 40 mm instead of the 30mm. We started at 67 and went back until the part number changed and came up with the 64 wheel cylinder to fit the 30mm shoes. PITA!!! Instead of going thru all the hassle of changing and trying to track down parts you should have taken the axles tubes and brakes form the old tranny swapped them over sealed everything up nice and neat and you would be done.


Oh sure...now you tell me. Lol Idea
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