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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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I did some work on the double cab tonight. I cleaned up the beam a bit getting ready for paint. I'm going to bruch on rustoleum gloss black.
I also cut into the frame a little bit to see what I'm getting into. This is the drivers side on the forward side of the beam mount. The steel is delaminating (total rust through) and looks like it needs cut out up 6in or more. The steel is 2x as thick on the mounting edge of the beam and the parts of the frame overlap. I'm guessing vw did this to strengthen it from sheer forces that the bolts would put on it as the suspension takes abuse from pot holes and such. The lower threaded insert is rotted pretty good and I'll have to have a machine shop make me a new one. The rest of the frame I will use 16 gauge and overlap it as the factory did to make it as strong. May have to use something thicker but will cross that when I come to it.
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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isnt this what some busses get cut up for? thank you for saving another one! DC are awesome! _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:23 am Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Yeah, I wish I could say my hands are clean but I have myself cut up or helped cut a few that I wish we would've saved now. I cut up a late 50's bus a friend had in his back yard because we needed the front beam. It had already donated it's whole nose with windshield frame to someone elses bus. The rest was not bad at all and it still bugs me that we did it. I once bought a 61 single cab for parts and it was pretty rotted. I sawzalled the entire thing and saved what I could. I still have the engine, front beam, sliding windows, and some other misc pieces. I seen a single cab last summer that was alot worse and they were still driving it! I know you can't save them all, but we do what we have to do. I'm paying it back now. |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Found a replacement boss for the frame at Big R today. It's a couple threaded couplers. I had to change the thread to 1.75 instead of the stock 1.00 and after I weld them together they will be as stong as the factory one. Cost was like 3.29 a piece and the bolt was a couple bucks. I had to buy enough to do both sides as you can see in more pics that the passenger side it rotted too.
\
I made a pattern of the frame so I could easily line up the replacement metal.
Cutting into the frame. I think this is high as I have to go. There's some good metal the rest of the way up. I just need to remove the rust between and use some rust convertor up inside.
This is the other side. The grey stuff in the hole is insulation. The reason this frame rotted out is mice made extensive nests inside parts of the frame. The forward parts of the frame that branch out are really bad and will be replaced too.
More to come this weekend. I will be busy the next 2 days closing on a house I have for sale 3 hours away and doing the work thing. later. |
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Daniel G Crazy Amish Guy
Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 828 Location: Central Alabama Amish Country
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Well, I spent most of today cleaning the other side of the garage trying to find my disc chucks for my makita angle grinder. Never did find them. I put some rust convertor on the metal and cleaned it up quite a bit. I can see now that the 16ga steel I have is not thick enough. The steel is 12ga and I don't have any. Still trying to catch the little old lady at home up the road to get her to sell me a vw in her back yard that has been sitting there for more than probably 2 decades.
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Is the front beam okay? I've run across several midwest rust belt type 2's that the beam was beyond repair. The bracket where the 3rd arm pivots is especially weak.
I've just sourced the from an Arizona yard called Blair and Sons. They advertise in samba classifieds, Jan Blair. I bet it would be possible to get some frame sections from them too. Hardly anybody needs this much and they'd probably not ask unreasonable prices.
Al _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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shiningstar76 Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003 Posts: 2689 Location: Savannah
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: 71 double cab restoration |
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Yup. Been there, done that. _________________ KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Thanks 69doublecab. I found some steel I bought last year and started fabricating the sections that I'm going to replace. The beam was in pretty good condition. There's only two holes in one tower and they're not that bad. I'm probably going to spray a bunch of rust convertor sealer inside both towers and let it dry then weld up any holes. The steel I have is 1/8 and matches up perfectly. In this pic you'll see I'm starting to remove the old floor and found a frame connector plate that connected the two frame rails on the drivers side is rotted completely thru and needs replaced. Alot of work.
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:32 am Post subject: |
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I'm trying to decide whether to use a spare really nice beam on either my 71 Dormobile or a 70 Westy someone gave me a few years back. The 71 was really rusty on one tower to the point it tore off. In a pinch for time to take it on a trip, I patched it and welded it back together. (on 3 sides only- can't weld it on the back side) The bus has only been driven about 1600 miles since 2009, but so far so good. Changing a beam is a LOT of work.
On the 70, the 3rd arm is damn near blowing in the wind- maybe 3/4 turn slop!
I gotta decide if either really deserves this beam- it would easily be the best piece of metal on the underside of either!
BTW, keep up the good work. It inspires those of us with rust problems.
Where are you from?
Al _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:36 am Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Hi, I would definitely fix it before driving it much more. The last thing you want is the beam breaking loose over a rough set of tracks or even worse finding out it wasn't strong enough in a collision. I'm not a professional certified welder or structural engineer. I do like to think that I'm pretty good at sorting things out and understanding why they designed the frame the way they did and why the metal is thicker up front than in the rear. In the front it has to be able to withstand forces of the vehicle turning corners and not flexing as well as being strong enough to withstand a collision. Most people wouldn't see it but there is crumple zones in there. That open area where the 2 beams split apart is designed to absorbed energy in a crash. It would be easy when repairing to box it all in but it would be the wrong way. If I had another frame easily available I would swap it out. It would not only be the safest thing to do but would increase the value of the restoration. A patched up frame will hurt the resale value. I have heart disease and am trying my best to get this truck done so it can go to my 7 year old some when he grows up. He could care less about it right now at his age but I know someday he will look back and remember all the work that was put info it. I also wouldn't mind driving it myself for a few years first. I live in central IL. I need to work on my signature. Thanks all for following along and your support. |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Hi, did a little work on the double tonight. Cut out most of the old floor. Wasn't too hard. Bought another angle grinder so I wouldn't have to swap discs and wire wheels all the time. There's still a ton of work but just have to make yourself get out there at least an hour a day.
_________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: 71 double cab restoration |
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71double wrote: |
Hi, I would definitely fix it before driving it much more. The last thing you want is the beam breaking loose over a rough set of tracks or even worse finding out it wasn't strong enough in a collision. ..... I live in central IL. I need to work on my signature. Thanks all for following along and your support. |
Oh, the 70 is TOTALLY off the road right now, waiting for a windshield opening repair after a tree fell on the roof. I'm thinking I'll try to put on a Riviera top, I like it better than the early Westy top. The windshield opening is deformed a few inches, but It's responded to some straightening with a porta power. Car is less rusty than yours, but still a Midwest car. I'm in Iowa, about 170 miles west of you.
Al _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Cool, just keep going. I did a little work out in the garage off and on over the past week. I've removed what was left of the front of the floor and realized a air chissel is not a good tool for use around sheet metal. I removed both frame plates on top of the frame splits.
This is why everyone should inspect their frames for rot. The rust came from the inside. Mice had built extensive nests inside the rails introducing moisture from urine and over time ruined the metal. I will have to remove at least the two outer frame forks and refabricate them. The inner ones are 1/8in steel and should still have at least 70 percent of their original thickness. I have looked and felt in the existing holes and the rust doesn't look too bad. I will know for sure when I get replacement metal in this week and cut the lower nose and support behind it off.
I tried again to call Gerson and finally ended up calling one of his resellers MonkeyNut in North Carolina. Really nice and friendly. The process my order pretty quick and the parts should be here this week. _________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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I ordered some Green Metal from Monkey Nut a reseller of Klassic Fab and received part of my order on Friday. Although I wasn't really happy with only part of the order showing up and no notice of that, I was happy to have gotten something so I could work on it this weekend. The long piece was put in a box a little too short and I had to straighten one end of the piece which didn't take that long.
I lined up the new piece and cut off the bottom edge to the line. After cutting it off it was quite obvious the metal support behing it would need replaced as well.
I looked up the nearest parts supplier to me Mid America Motorworks and they had finally got that part in. After a hour there and back I had the part and a couple other pieces I needed.
I cut out the old one and noticed right away that the replacement part isn't identical to the factory one. There's no doubled up metal to stiffen the part right where it fastens to the middle frame rails. It's not a big deal as I can just weld a plate to the outside of the piece and tie it to the frame. With these parts off and the floor removed I have the room to redo the outer frame rails.
I did a test fit of the new part and it will require a little tweaking but should do the job just fine. Will try and do more work on it tomorrow. _________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Painted my front beam last night. I've also ordered the frame repair sections from JustKampers after looking closer and seeing all the front frame is 12ga steel. Too much work to try and bend the pieces myself on a bench vice and the local metal shop would probably want a good price to reproduce them.
_________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, been really busy with work and had a lot of parts delivered recently.
I went ahead and ordered new chassis legs from justkampers. Really quick shipping. I measured and cut off the old leg leaving what I could of the bump out. As you can see it fits very nicely.
I drilled and plug welded the 2 pieces of the leg together.
My welding is getting a bit better. I have good penetration, but need to work on steadying the arm a bit. The bottom side is not working out so well because the metal is thinner due to rust. I will have to add a patch over the two pieces to strengthen it up.
Actually looks pretty good in this pic. I still need to cut a plate to replace the rotten one that I ground off. I still have to patch up holes on the part between the new leg and the part where the beam mounts. It' was rusted pretty good but not as bad as the drivers. I will just weld some plate over the top of the current steel to strengthen it up.
Received the rest of the parts this last week. They came directly from Klassic Fab. Really nice quality. The floor fits pretty good, can't wait to get to that point. I thought I ordered the rockers but got short pieces instead. Some confusion between MonkeyNut and myself, but I'm sure I can use them and if not I'll just list them on TheSamba for sale later. _________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:25 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Hi all, I got some time away from the computer and got some work done on the double cab tonight. I finished welding up the rt leg and reinforced it quite a bit. I had to put a bottom plate on because the replacement leg wasn't long enough and what metal was left was not taking the welds good enough. I used .35 innershield on a Lincoln 140c. I had the settings at 1 and F5. Once I fine tuned it, the welds looked pretty good.
I tried my best to keep a lot of the original shape of the frame and cut a curved piece for the bottom of the bump out in this pic.
I recreated the top plate using flat steel plug welded and seam welded together. Just as strong as it was from the factory if not a little stronger.
I'm now onto the really fun side where I have to refabricate a good section of the frame.
I kinda wish I hadn't cut so high up now, but it's not going to be that bad. I may get some wider flat stock or I may just weld up a small piece to fill in the gap. In this last pic this is the area you've all been waiting for to see how I do it.
I'm really pushing on this now to make sure I make it to the Effingham, IL Funfest show at the end of May. Hope to see some of you all there.
later _________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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71double Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Kincaid, IL
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: 71 double cab restoration |
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Thanks notchboy! I appreciate the feedback. I added it up today and I have 15days to get this thing back on the road. It won't win a trophy but driving it to a show is enough for me. _________________ 71 Double Cab ( being restored)
85 Westfalia with 5th slideout captains chair middle seat
73 VW Thing
73 Beetle (awaiting a restoration someday)
02 Jetta TDI 350,000 |
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