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briyenkieth Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2010 Posts: 293 Location: prague, oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: oil leak behind pulley |
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ok so thanks to this site i managed to assemble my 1600. problem is i have a nasty oil leak coming from behind the crank pulley. for a bit of info the motor is stock case, crank, pulley, oil pump. the only "trick" stuff would be straight cut gears and an engle w-100 cam.
i read a bunch of threads about this and most had aftermarket pulley assembles causing their problem. here is where i think i went wrong and please tell me if this sounds right.
i might have either put the rear most bearing in backwards or the oil slinger backwards. i'm almost positive that i have the slinger correct, as i double checked with the bug me video. i am really leaning towards the bearing as the problem seems to get worse as rpm and load increase. i noticed the leak as soon as i finished the cam break in, but it was only a small leak and looked like the oil pump. wasn't until i drove the car that it worsened to the point that the crank was throwing oil everywhere.
so am i splitting my case? i already know i am... |
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RockCrusher Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010 Posts: 4596 Location: Parkesburg, PA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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If you put the bearing in backwards you would have no oil there. If you put the oil-slinger in backward it would be gouging the inside of the block. I'm presuming that you used the stock pulley from your description? What did you use to seal the case halves together? Silicone? Some other thick toothpaste like stuff? Chances are you blocked the L-shaped drain from the pulley area with sealant.
Just a 1st shot across the bow......
RC _________________ [email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Put a bolt on sand seal on it, that's the only thing that cures it everytime. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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miniman82 wrote: |
Put a bolt on sand seal on it, that's the only thing that cures it everytime. |
And the usual reply...................
Sand seals are deigned to keep sand out, they are not designed to keep oil in. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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usual rebuttal: then how come they do? _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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briyenkieth Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2010 Posts: 293 Location: prague, oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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i used gaskacinch. kinda had the same smell and consistency of rubber cement. actually i thought i hadnt used enough and was real careful around anywhere i felt i could clog a port, but who knows what that stuff did when i sqweezed the case together. yes the pulley is a stock one. i dont want to use a sand seal. if vw didnt use one then why would i. i'm no engineer and this wont be driven off road so..but thanks for the suggestion. |
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RockCrusher Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010 Posts: 4596 Location: Parkesburg, PA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing that feeds oil to the affected area is that one little bearing. In a virtually stock engine (not a 30mm pump) you either are NOT properly draining the area or the timing area is overfilling and back filling the area.
Do you have extra venting? A drain hose at the original fuel pump mount? What else changed about the engine besides cam? _________________ [email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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yes use a sand seal they work and any body can install them,well might be kinda hard for a monkey to do it right but it is very easy and they work very well, but you will need a pully made for it also.and make sure the case is vented good enough.with 2, 1/2" hose's that can breathe freely. |
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briyenkieth Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2010 Posts: 293 Location: prague, oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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no nothing else has changed but the cam. stock venting thru the oil fill. i was thinking about this as well, seeing as the motor is new and the rings probably havent seated in the 30 miles that i have driven the car. guess i'm going to have to pull things apart and see whats up. i was just hoping someone would tell me i wasn't standing on my right foot when i turned the car on or some shit. aside from the oil leak my car runs like a dream. plenty of power thru out the rpm range, not to buzzy with solid mounts. just plain sweet, but it's never easy for me so something had to go wrong first time around. |
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RockCrusher Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010 Posts: 4596 Location: Parkesburg, PA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Have a feeling it is a blockage then... _________________ [email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
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Bholdaway Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2010 Posts: 84 Location: Rawlins
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I would check the vents |
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Teeroy Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3682 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: oil leak behind pulley |
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If the case isn't new, the nose of the case could be damaged, oversize or cut for a seal already. Any of these problems will require a sand seal pulley (if wanted or not) to fix. _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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or broke ring, they should be seated by now unless you oiled the rings. you did not oil the rings did you??never oil the rings, just a very light oil in the cylinders and wip them out with a clean paper towel,oil the skirts&put piston in the cylinder just farenough to get the pin in,install the forward keeper/buttom the slide it down the studs, put the pin in and teflon buttons/keepers, do the others and you done. rings seat dry,rings dont seat wet. |
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SRP1 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4340
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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To much crank case pressure or a clogged drain back galley would be the first ideas to mind.
However; go for a mountain drive, that's a good way to seat rings.
If the issue still persists pay attention to the amount of blow by gasses escaping the breather. If you suspect an issue with rings, and notice a fair amount of crankcase ventilation, do a cylinder leak down test.
That will weed out the possibility of bad rings should they pass, if not the test tell you which cylinder/s is the offending one.
Another common issue is a worn case bore around the pulley, if the gap is excessive oil can be pushed out that area.
If all else fails put a seal in, it's something VW should have done but missed the boat on.
Oh yea; Monkeydave, stay in your cage. to much poop tossing and flinging on this site already.
A seal is designed to keep oil in, the term "sand seal" is a slang term used to sell a gimmick to the off road world. It still a damn oil seal |
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briyenkieth Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2010 Posts: 293 Location: prague, oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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well to start with thanks to everyone!
i found the problem. seems that the stock pulley i bought used was modified for a sand seal. having never built a acvw motor i didnt even know what i was looking at other than a pulley. it was about an 1/8th inch smaller on the o.d. of the shoulder and had no groves in it. bought a shinny new degree wheel and problem solved. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Don't be surprized if you still get a fine mist from time to time, most of those aftermarket pullies still don't have the grooves machined right. Sand seal is what always cures the problem for me. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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briyenkieth Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2010 Posts: 293 Location: prague, oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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i'll keep an eye on that, thanks. went for about a 70 mile trip today running around and it shows no signs of leaking so far. even if the grooves aren't deep enough their better than none at all. |
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RichardGee Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: Dixon, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: Leaking from behind pulley |
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Mild compression and cammed 2027cc engine.
Running great - no issues whatsoever.
All of a sudden, we have oil spraying into engine compartment... from fine mist to droplets. All are 'in line' with pulley as if it is slinging the oil outward like a pinwheel.
LOTS of troubleshooting and elimination later...removing rear tin and pulley, the oil does appear to be coming from behind the pulley.
Case was machined for sand seal, as was the SCAT pulley.
Engine ran without a single leak for 2000 miles. Now, it leaks.
Crankcase breathers from both valve covers and oil fill tube - all perfectly clear as is Bugpack breather box.
Engine ONLY leaks when fully warmed up, Over 3000 rpm.
Not 100% positive, but I THINK the leak started about the time I switched to 50% synthetic oil in the engine... could THIS be causing the oil to squeeze out past the sand seal??
Here in Sacramento we get 100 degrees... WHAT OIL should I be using?
Engine has Scat 28mm oil pump, full flow HP1 filter.
THANKS |
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HRVW Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2011 Posts: 2531 Location: Rosarito, Mexico
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: |
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e As a former VW engine builder (now retired) will have a different perspective that some will disagree with.
The oil slinger is just that as air is injested behind the pully into the engine case and vents thru the oil filler/gen stand drip pipe. Air goes in and needs to go out.
You have closed OFF the air intake and when reaching the est 3000 RPM crankcase pressure builds up and the oil is forced out the nearest exit level point......the pully seal.
It was called a sand seal because sand buggys were injesting sand behind the pully and eating up the inside of the engine.
Take a sand buggy engine apart and the insides look like it was SAND BLASTED....thus the Sand Seal was invented.
Personally I do not like the FULL FLOW idea.
I have a 1776cc Turbo engine with the CB oil cooler adapter using the external oil filter hanging in the engine compartment....20/50 oil and the valve covers are vented......oil pressure 60-80 cold....40-20 warm.
Am from so Calif and now drive the 66 Turbo bug in Rosarito Baja.
Just my old school opinion |
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RichardGee Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: Dixon, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: Oil leak from pulley... |
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Problem solved... This was a combination of synthetic oil at a level just shy of the top line on the dip stick. With a hot engine, just over 3000 rpm, the thin slippery synth oil was squeezing out from the pulley sand seal.
What made this more difficult to find was that the back side of the pulley was SQUEEKY CLEAN!
Logic told me that if the pulley was slinging oil out like a pinwheel, there would have been oil on the back of the pulley. NOT SO in this case!
Of course oil drips down, so I had oil on the full flow oil input fitting of the case, making it look like the culprit.
Anyway, removed the rear tin and pulley and closely examined the crank area and could see oil "pooled" in that area just inside the seal.
So.... drained the synthetic oil, cleaned everything up... switched to CASTROL GTX 20/50, filling to just slightly above lowest mark on dipstick. Took the car out in 105 degree weather and drove it. NOT A DRIP!
Have since added a bit more oil to bring the level up a little more above the lowest line. Car has been driven in very hot weather for the last week, and still NOT ONE DRIP |
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