Building a 74 mm Stroke by 88 mm bore with 042 or 044 heads?

[Danwvw]

Hi, any comments are welcome, Need advice! I have decided to build my next bus engine Type 1 to be a 74 mm stroke and 88 mm thick wall type "a" Pistons & Cylinders and perhaps some Mofoco 042 or CB 044 heads as all of this will fit into the bus for a otherwise stock setup without machine work.
Thinking of one of these mild cams:
Engle-W100,
Scat C20 with 1.25 Ratio rockers
Scat C25,
or
Web Cam 86 with the 1.25 Ratio Rockers.

Wondering about these Heads:
042 Heads
and these,
044 Heads.
Which Heads and which valves? I have always built very close to stock before so this will be my first stroker experience.
If I use the 5.325" Rods, the geometry should come out stock?
A link on clutch disc .
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Quokka42]

The 042 has better cooling, but the 044 is a lot cheaper... Cooling is a good thing in a bus.

The short rods minimise spacers, but there are many variables and you will have to check and set your deck height and rocker geometry (pushrod length, possibly spacers.)

The Rod ratio change isn't really into the significant area, but will still be a positive thing for your torque.

I'd lean towards the Web cam even if just for quality - especially if you subscribe to the Samba "must use same brand of lifters as cam" school. The W100 is a nice mild cam, but I have heard and seen too many bad things about Engle lifters in recent years - ignore the paper experts and fit the parkerised scat lifters from ACN if you choose that one.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Danwvw]

Yes, I am hoping to be able to run stock Push Rods as it says in the ads, Piston & Cylinders here: 88mm Thick Wall Slip in at the case and here are the rods 5.325" Rods.
Wondering if the smaller 40 mm X 35 mm Valves would not work better with the stock solex 34 PICT/3 Carb? Or if the 42 mm X 37 mm Valves would be ok?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Quokka42]

For your intended application even 35.5 x 32 would be good in the right head - but such a head would be prohibitively expensive. 42 x 37 are just getting too big for your bore and shrouding would undo any possible benefit.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[vwracerdave]

DRD or Aircooled.net L3 stock valve ported and polished heads are all you need with a 34 PIC carb or dual kadrons. Use the 40x35.5 only if you upgrade to dual IDF's and a W-110 cam. 42x37 are grossly way too big for your 1800cc engine
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[Danwvw]

I don't have enough build experience to know about shrouding, sounds important! Have heard that if the ports are too big that it may hurt torque this must be the shrouding? I looked at just having the stock heads rebuilt but when I add cost of HD valve springs and head crack welding and stud repair up it is not that much more for new heads also these new heads are made to fit the cylinders. I have heard of the L3's, I suppose they are the same manufacture as the 42's, Some one was saying not to run the 41's though.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Quokka42]

Shrouding means the valves end up too close to the side of the chamber, making part of the valve curtain area useless. Larger valves also tend to have larger ports which will hurt torque and drivability, or they come with undersized ports for the valve size and can end up flowing a lot worse than stock!

Berg used to do some great stock valve heads (if you could stop them semi-hemi cutting them) but they were a bit pricey. Fantastic range on engines around this size, though. - great torque, great top end, and they ran as cool as stock.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Danwvw]

Ok So I found this on the L3 heads: DRD L3. Looks like these have the stock valve size 35.5X32mm and it says they fit my stock heat exchangers. Wonder if that means the 042 and 044 heads above would mis-match at the ports to the stock intake or exhaust manifolds. So if I understand this right then what is being said here is that the 1800 cc build will be too small to use larger than stock valves? I want to get this combination right for the 74 mm stroke and 88 mm bore and the short rods, but will be staying away from anything I can't bolt on. Your thoughts?
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[[email protected]]

If you follow

http://www.aircooled.net/1800cc-vw-engine-no-machine-combo/

you won't make a mistake.
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[Danwvw]

Yes I had read your article about 6 months ago. I will read it carefully again. Looks like I now have another vote for the L3 Heads New L3 heads. One question that comes to mind now is if these L3 Heads are 044 castings then are there any other choices that use the 042 or 044 Head castings that would work with my stock heater setup?
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[[email protected]]

the porting and valve job is more important that what casting was started with
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

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[Danwvw]

When I first started this project I talked to the only guy I could find around this part of Oregon that rebuilds heads and he said that doing porting to the stock heads would not accomplish any real increase in performance and he did not recommend it because it just messed up the flow etc. for my application.
These guys here in Coos Bay Oregon do a lot of Sand buggies and take them out on the dunes we have here next to the Pacific Ocean. One would think they know quite a bit about these air-cooled engines.

So my question now is, will the increased flow ratings help given the Stock Heater Boxes and Stock Solex 34 PICT/3 carb?
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Quokka42]

If you are sticking with stock heater boxes and carb, don't go any further than the L3 mentioned above. The Berg heads were great, but about twice that price. With the right cam and appropriate compression, you can still get a lot of performance out of your engine, something like 50-60% above stock. You'll get a lot of knockers, but it has been done before. Alstrup is our resident expert on performance with a 34PICT-3 and will probably chime in.
_________________
There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Slow 1200]

I'd use some ported stock heads, (040, 043, 311 if you find them), with a good valve job, you need more velocity than flow, no need for big valves.

[ALB]

[[email protected]]

If someone is used to building/driving 200 or more HP in their VW engines, then a 100hp 1800 is not "real performance". So you have to consider the context of your answer.

110hp compared to the 55 you had before, is a huge change.

That guy doesn't know that much, because if he knew you were running stock heater boxes, he should know that all "Big Valve Head" options are no longer in play. You must work with 35 x 32mm heads with stock heater boxes.

[mark tucker]

the 20~30% on ported stock valved heads is streaching it a bit but I reckon it depends on the casting you start with. the mofoco's are very nice&flow what roy says they do.I would either use them or the lospanchetos from cb. The 044 in stock form isant all that good, but if you port them there great and thats what they were made for, but probably too much head for your app.the lospanchetos will probably do the best job at that application.

[sactojesse]

Not sure why you would even both building that engine if you're going to stick with a 34 PICT-3. It will run much cooler and more economically with a pair of Dellorto 36 DRLAs or Weber 40 IDFs, not to mention the extra power.
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[Alstrup]

120 hp on a untouched stock port is stretching it N/A. 120 CFM a 0,500" and 25" with stock valves is easy. The next 10 CFM are significantly harder to find, but absolutely possible. 120 hp on a ported stock head is easy, but of course the combo need to be matched somewhat. The slap together tendency wohnt hold. Try and pull 140 hp on stock valved heads. Then you can talk about it being difficult.

Steve Tims 37,5/32 mm super stock heads in the Chinese casting looks very interesting. Port size and volume looks to be very good from pictures. I have yet to see them with my fingers and put them to the test on the flow bench though.

T

[jfats808]