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TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread
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tristessa
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

What's the overall uncollapsed height on those mounts?

I used Ford Tempo transmission mounts with Fox motor mount arms bolted to the block on my ABA, Anchor p/n 2696 widely available and cheap at Autozone, O'Reillys or wherever. Did have to drill out the holes in the Fox arms, and no idea what the overall height on the mount is .. I was building the motor carrier so I had flexibility in the dimensions, but I don't have them around anymore.

Also maybe look at Passat 1.8T engine mounts -- the overall engine mounting is similar to the Fox and Dasher. I could get you installed height and diameter on those mounts if you need
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

I'll have to measure the unused one. Uncollapsed, they are a little taller than I was thinking. I thought about swapping to something like the 1.8t mounts but I figured they were probably quite a bit taller and would then require remaking my carrier bar hangar to fit.

So if you wouldn't mind getting the height of one of them, I'd much appreciate it. Do you happen to know the difference in construction between the right and left ones?

May still try filling these just to see what happens, but it would also be great to know of alternatives.
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tristessa
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Both of mine are approximately 3-3/4" tall, compressed. These are 20 year-old OG VW mounts with about 80K miles on them, came from my low mileage donor car. Diameter I couldn't easily get with a tape measure but I'd guess they're about 4-1/2".

Difference between the left and right side mount on the Passat 1.8T must be internal construction, because other than the rubbery cap on the .. right side in the Passat left side in the Bus .. mount under the exhaust manifold they look the same to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

tristessa wrote:
Both of mine are approximately 3-3/4" tall, compressed. These are 20 year-old OG VW mounts with about 80K miles on them, came from my low mileage donor car. Diameter I couldn't easily get with a tape measure but I'd guess they're about 4-1/2".

Difference between the left and right side mount on the Passat 1.8T must be internal construction, because other than the rubbery cap on the .. right side in the Passat left side in the Bus .. mount under the exhaust manifold they look the same to me.


Wow, that is very good information! I haven't measured mine yet, but I am quite sure that they are not very far off at all. Not sure why I assumed they would be quite a bit taller.

Kerma TDI sells 1.8t mounts as a replacement for the TDI Passat mounts, which are roughly a hundred bucks more expensive-each! I reached out to them to see if there was some kind of big internal or functional difference between the two.

Other than a tube of silicone, I don't think there is much to lose by trying out filling the gaps in the current mounts and seeing what sort of change it does or doesn't make in vibrations and all that. And the mounts are super easy to get to in this application, even with engine installed.

But I'm thinking that if that experiment fails, then it seems these will likely be a very good option.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Hey Westy,

I doubt the silicone will do much for you in the way you want it to. There are several diy methods out there for filling voids in mounts, but the ones i've seen are for horizontal rubber mounts and not vertical. I'm sure there is a reason they need to squish so it may not be good to remove that "feature". I am betting that even if you are able to squeeze some kind of rubber in there, it will get squished out under the weight.

I'll be watching as I do hope you are able to solve your dilemma and i'm sorry i don't have anything good to say to help you out.

Best of luck
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Well damn. The mounts are only 2.5 inches tall, so the 1.8t style would be too tall out of the box.

But it probably wouldn't be too difficult to lower the mounting bar by an inch if I decide to try them.

The response from Kerma TDI was that the 1.8t mounts indeed fit in place of the TDI mounts, and she didn't think she could tell a difference in the vibrations between the two if she did a blind test. She said that in the original application, the 1.8t mounts do seem to start to leak their damping fluid earlier than the TDI mounts when installed in a TDI vehicle, but that was it.

Perhaps silicone would be too squishy. Window Weld would probably be much stiffer and could work, I bet.

I also saw where people were just shoving bits of old radiator hose or similar in the voids to fill them a bit. I certainly do have lots of rad hose left over that I could cut up and shove in the voids!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Heh, I decidd for try one to just use what I had on hand--some cut up pieces of radiator hose!

So I cut the hose into strips and shoved the strips into the openings. Used liberal applications of talcum powder and a screwdriver to work the smallest strips in. The strips were purposefully a little longer than needed, so they stick out a bit proud.

I figure I'm out absolutely zero with this attempt, so why not give it a shot? Gave me something to do while talking on the phone with my girlfriend... I hate talking on the phone but she prefers that over texting or whatever so it helps me if I have something else to do at the same time, and I had finished walking the dog.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Getting close to finishing up the wiring overhaul project in the back. Once I button that up a little more, I'll post a couple pics.

I had grown very weary of having to kind of push the wiring harness just right to start the Bus each time. I initially figured the problem was the ignition switch wearing out, but decided to investigate further into the harness.

I believe I've found my problem! This is an issue where I'm my own PO. Years ago the coil had rotated around and shorted on the fan shroud, which melted some wiring. I guess I tried to splice in a pigtail before and it worked for a while, but heat buildup from crappy connectors eventually took it's toll. I found a whole, unplugged not cut, ignition harness in the classifieds and took care of that this morning.

Doing this also gave me the opportunity to remove a few more extra wires from the dealer installed AC system that was in here. Also discovered that the dealer (or maybe Westfalia?) wired the clock into an always-hot connection that I do not believe is fused. So that'll be rectified too.

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tristessa
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Not sure about the later units, but the earlier Kienzle clocks have a built-in low temp solder fuse.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

tristessa wrote:
Not sure about the later units, but the earlier Kienzle clocks have a built-in low temp solder fuse.


Oh, interesting. I figured it was some kind of nonsense done by whoever installed the AC at the dealership way back when. I remember Skills talking about finding hackneyed wiring done to move the fuse box down out of the way of the under-dash AC system, and this was similar.

I'll probably still attach it to the back of the fuse box, just in case it doesn't have an internal fuse. That'll also then protect the wiring going to the clock.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

I got my sound absorption mat installed above the transmission yesterday

I started out by making a template by measuring all the openings I would need to cut, including for the tabs that hold it up (a couple were rusted away so no need to cut them!), the fuel line openings, slits and a small hole for the cross braces, and the rear heater hoses and wiring holes.

I transferred the marks and openings to some foam from anti-fatigue mat that I had. I originally intended to test-fit the mat but it was a little too stiff to install easily. But it was still useful to have to trace on the actual mat for cutting and I was able to get a visual of how it would fit first.

I first sealed up the mat's cut edges with T-Rex/Gorilla tape (different brands of super thick and wide duct-tape) but then decided to go ahead and cover the mat fully with the tape. It has a fairly tough layer of mylar, but I decided it would tear too easily on installing and that having a layer of tape shouldn't hurt it in any way. I figured it will either not do anything, or add a little bit of sound blocking abilities... Hopefully I'm right about that, I guess. It really did make pushing, pulling, and tugging the mat into place around the body parts and obstacles much easier.

Here's a pic showing the cross section of the mat. There is the layer of mylar, then an inch or little more of foam for absorption, then a layer of mass loaded vinyl to block sound, and a small decoupler layer of foam to separate the vinyl from the vehicle's metal.

Sourced here:
http://cascadeaudio.com/marine/vb_tsm_compostie_material.htm

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The mat along with my template before I layered it with tape, plus the project supervisor.

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Layered with tape, ready to install.

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Installed.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

I have a bit of the material left over. I'm thinking about making mats for the wheel wells as well, since noise from those areas makes it inside the bus. Not sure how is hold them in, though, since there aren't tabs or anything similar. We'll see what I come up with, if anything. At least I can do that just as easily later on with the engine installed.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Well, [insert your favorite curse words here].

The damn transmission seems to have shit the bed again!

I was driving about 70 on the way to a friend's open house at their new business when I started hearing a soft (not very loud) high-pitched noise that I couldn't identify. It sorta came and went for a minute or two. Originally I thought it was from the radio, then the speedometer cable.

It was still driving along fine in 4th gear.

Then as a part of trying to figure out the noise, I pushed in the clutch and went to neutral. I was thinking I'd turn the engine off for a moment and coast along and see if the noise persisted. But as I pulled it to neutral something seemed weird, so I tried to go back to 4th. It wouldn't go, and made all sorts of terrible grinding noises.

I was able to make it to my destination (I was only a mile or two out by that point and it just seemed much better than being broken down on the side of the road with cold rain, etc.), but 3rd gear was also making whining noises.

This is so damn frustrating. 1) because, well, the rebuild isn't that old (I think that was about 3.5 years ago), and really doesn't have that many miles. and 2) because it is(was?) the planned honeymoon mode in May! And, well, with everything else I have going on in life (primarily grad school and getting married) money is super tight at this point.

I guess I'll call German Transaxle on Monday, but I seem to remember that there was no warranty on the build due to being an engine conversion, and it surely has been long enough a warranty would be past anyway.

Ugh.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad

I wonder if Andrew ever got anywhere with the TDI reverse-rotation project. An 012 box would likely take care of your issues once and for all. Would require a different injection pump and a custom ground cam though...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

That's a bummer Dave. Crying or Very sad

I don't recall why you rebuilt the trans 3.5 years ago.
Maybe the new engine is too much for the old trans?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Hikelite wrote:
That's a bummer Dave. Crying or Very sad

I don't recall why you rebuilt the trans 3.5 years ago.
Maybe the new engine is too much for the old trans?


It was the original trans (besides changing to the Mexican bellhousing) at that time using all the original gearing, etc. Prior to the engine conversion, it was well used and I was not at all surprised when it gave up.

So at that time, I knew it would need to be rebuilt eventually and was making back-of-mind plans to do so anyway. (Though I was very disappointed with it's timing, as that was a couple weeks prior to the last planned campout of the season.)

When I had it rebuilt (I don't remember the exact specs without looking through files), I talked with them extensively about my concerns about it lasting and paid extra for whatever parts they recommended to make it more stout. I know it has the taller (4.12 I think) ring and pinion and taller 3rd and 4th gears. It also has some kind of upgraded differential that was supposed to be stronger, but I don't recall offhand what it was called.

So all that really adds to the upset/disappointment. I felt like I had more or less gone all out at the time with making it be as sturdy as it could be.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Dave that sucks. Sad Hope you find a way to get back on the road for the honeymoon.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm pretty upset about the whole thing.

It is frustrating because I tried so hard (In terms of communicating my worries to German Transaxle and buying what they recommended) to make sure it was set up well to handle the TDI motor. I've had other issues with the engine that were, really, in one way or another probably due to something I neglected. But I was sure the transmission was not one of those things.

Honeymoon is planned for May, to coincide with being between semesters. So I guess that means I have a little more than 5 months to get something figured out.

Hopefully on Tuesday evening (weather permitting) I'll have time to drain the oil and see what the chunks look like. But I'm certainly not at all optimistic. It was all just so similar to when it came apart a few years ago.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

I feel for you.

My trans is currently working fine -- knock on wood. But I had to pay the builder twice to rebuild it.

If I had to do it all again, I think I'd to the upside down Euro TDI trans. It would certainly have been less money, and would have been geared right and built for the torque from the factory.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread Reply with quote

markd89 wrote:
I feel for you.

My trans is currently working fine -- knock on wood. But I had to pay the builder twice to rebuild it.

If I had to do it all again, I think I'd to the upside down Euro TDI trans. It would certainly have been less money, and would have been geared right and built for the torque from the factory.


Thanks, yeah, it sucks!

What was the reason you had to have third built twice?

I've been emailing with a guy who has some ideas on making the thing last longer, but he says that without some changes, these 091 gearboxes just don't last well with tdi motors behind them. He expressed surprise mine lasted as long as it has.

I looked at the flipped transmissions, but originally decided against that because you either end up with major grounds clearance problems, or have to do crazy fabrication with CVs, or both.

Plus figure out things like the offset shifter rod and hydraulic clutch.
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