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rockypointbuggyboy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2023
Posts: 10
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:22 pm Post subject: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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Hi all!!!
I'm brand new the VW life and have been working on getting my "beetle" up and running. It is a 1963 beetle frame/engine and trans with a 1983 fiberglass Manx body on top. Several things aren't used, like the door switches or the interior lights, but right now, I cannot even get the ignition circuit to work and charge.
The engine starts, and runs great - Tuned carb, replaced plugs and plug wires, did timing, replaced alternator (12v), bulbs (12v), all bueno. Car was clearly halfway through a 12v conversion as noted by many 6v bulbs and the generator, which wasn't hooked up anyway......
As of now, the idiot light comes on with key position 1 (0 being off, 1 being running, 2 being crank). Crank , engine starts, but will NOT shut off. Idiot light stays on. I usually have to choke out the carb to shut it off. I do have a battery disconnect on the NEG , but even that won't stop it from running.
See my photos below for the current wiring setup. Again, ONLY worried about starting, running, and charging for the purposes of this post.
<<<diagram |
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rockypointbuggyboy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2023
Posts: 10
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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P.S. > I will PAY for someone on a video call or something to help me out!! This is really frustrating for me and unfortunately, I'm under a deadline  |
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Q-Dog
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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raydog
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Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1163
Location: Cape Cod
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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You have some mistakes in your diagram. Try this, it really simplifies what you are trying to accomplish.
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Come on, It's not rocket science. KISS |
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rockypointbuggyboy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2023
Posts: 10
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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| The diagram you sent doesn't show the coil wire going back to the ignition like in my setup - is that not required?? |
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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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Your speedometer idiot light is wired backwards. The alternator small wire that is going to “union” needs to go to the alternator light output (currently shown going to ground). The common point of those 3 bulbs gets power, each of the bulbs is then seeking ground.
That should fix the no-shut-off condition you have now. Next we can see if it also fixes charging, or figure out the next steps.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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rockypointbuggyboy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2023
Posts: 10
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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| Apologies - I don't think I understand what you mean "it's backwards" - it was my understanding that the pins sticking out of each light bulb brass housing (3 in a row) each needed their own positive, and the casing was ground. Can you elaborate? |
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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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| rockypointbuggyboy wrote: |
| Apologies - I don't think I understand what you mean "it's backwards" - it was my understanding that the pins sticking out of each light bulb brass housing (3 in a row) each needed their own positive, and the casing was ground. Can you elaborate? |
Reverse that understanding. The pins sticking out of each bulb are seeking ground through something and the common pin to the casing gets 12 volt power. (the spade terminal next to the 3 bulbs)
The alternator light bulb pin will find a ground through the alternator connection if the alternator is not turning. When the alternator spins up that same pin will have +12 volts on it. That is why your engine keeps running with the key off now. If a bulb has +12 volts on both sides it is the same as if it was grounded on both sides and the same as if it was not connected to anything at all. With no path from power to ground there is no light.
The speedometer housing still needs a ground to the metal case, which you marked, because bolting it to fiberglass doesn't provide that ground, like bolting the speedometer to a metal dash used to provide.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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Just to clarify, the 3 warning lights at the bottom of the speedometer are insulated from the speedometer housing. (see how they are in a plastic housing?) Positive power goes to the common on this plastic housing and like EVFun said, the pin on each bulb is negative and goes to its appropriate sender connection.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Buggy Build / New to this / Wires?? |
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| rockypointbuggyboy wrote: |
| <<<diagram |
I agree with the above comments... the "Union" in the above diagram connecting the (blue wire) alternator D+ circuit and the (black wire) ignition switch #15 circuits together is where your problem is. These two circuits should never be spliced together.
In the pic of your speedometer:
The bottom most terminal on the speedometer (black wire - which you appear to have grounded to the case of the speedometer) should actually be running to an ignition switched power source for all three indicator lamps at the bottom of the speedometer. You can see by the black housing the bulbs are install into that they do not share the case ground used by the rest of the speedometer. This is done purposefully as these three bulb holders are reverse polarity from what you would expect. Instead of sharing a common ground (-) as you would expect the bottom most terminal is how they share a common 12v positive (+) from the ignition switch #15 circuit. Each of the wires coming off these three bulb holders run to a switched ground source which turns the respective bulb ON.
For example, consider the OIL lamp and the oil pressure switch which grounds the oil switch wire when the oil pressure drops below 5psi. How would the OIL lamp light up if the other side of the OIL lamp was not 12v+??
To fix this:
1) Remove the black wire from the bottom most terminal of the speedometer that runs to the case of the speedometer. If your speedometer has a dedicated ground wire elsewhere this wire is not needed and you can just remove this wire completely. If wish to use this wire to ground the case of the speedometer, replace this wire with a brown (ground) wire and run it between the metal case of the speedometer and a known good ground point.
2) Move the black wire with red crimp on terminal from the GEN lamp bulb holder to the bottom most terminal. This is the wire coming from the "union" in your diagram. Now this bottom most terminal is powered by the ignition switch along with the ignition coil while the ignition switch is ON. Do you have a fuse protecting this wire?
3) Run a direct (blue) wire from the alternator D+ terminal to the GEN lamp bulb holder. In the wiring diagrams this is the #61 circuit. The GEN lamp now sits between the 12v+ ignition switched power source (black wire) connected to the bottom of the speedometer and the D+ terminal on the alternator (blue wire). This is how the stock alternator GEN lamp was wired. The alternator will ground this circuit before the engine is running. Once the alternator starts charging, D+ will start to output 12v+. Once this happens the GEN lamp will see 12v+ coming from both sides of the circuit. No current flows in a circuit where there is zero potential difference in voltage between the INPUT and OUTPUT of a device... current flow stops. With no current flowing thru the GEN lamp it turns OFF while the alternator is charging.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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